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Author Subject: Best Axle Options?
eddy_gti6

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Post #1
I have a 306 hdi and a gti6 axle to hand what I believe are both the same?
Also have access to to an xsara axle what have the 21mm bars and believe to have different toe in and camber.

What would be the best axle to use? I will be adding solid mounts, hybrid ARB and either GAZ GHA or Bilstein B6 rear shocks.

The car will be mainley track based but may be took out on the road now and then but wont be an everyday car.

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Posted 30th Dec 2013 at 12:36
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superchargedblack1997gti6

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Post #2
xsara vts beam would be my choice, but if I remember pete rallye talking about it he said something about the xsara beam being less forgiving. but it would be my personal choice mate Thumbs up

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Posted 30th Dec 2013 at 12:48
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dangti6

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Post #3
Use the VTS beam.

Good luck beating it apart if you're going to rebuild it in the process.

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    • Posted 30th Dec 2013 at 13:21
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    eddy_gti6

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    Post #4
    Whats the difference between rebuilding a 6 axle to a vts axle like? I wouldnt be doing it anyway tho Big grin

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    Posted 30th Dec 2013 at 13:23
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    jamiek_uk2000

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    Post #5
    Having spoken to Jord when he built my beam he was never a fan of the hybrid beams, much rather a solid 30mm one (or smaller depending on what your using it for). Something to do with the splines being crap on the hybrid (I have no idea) I've got B6's on mine at the minute but going over to GHA's now as I'm going upto 23.5mm bars and a 30mm ARB

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    Posted 30th Dec 2013 at 13:28
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    jeffers Forum Admin

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    Post #6
    IIRC the xsara beam has less toe in..... but dont quote me on that! Pm pete is your best bet, to my knowledge he's tried most combinations on various track cars and therefore will be able to give an informed answer! Thumbs up

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    Posted 30th Dec 2013 at 13:39
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    eddy_gti6

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    Post #7
    Ah yeah could do. Will be fitting the hdi axle to get the car rolling but since I have spare axles I can build a good one so may as well go for a good set up

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    Posted 30th Dec 2013 at 13:43
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    dangti6

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    Post #8
    Year--Model--Rear toe in (mm)--Rear negative camber(degrees/minutes)

    1985-92--205 GTi 1.6+1.9/Rallye--3.60--0/50

    1985-92--205+309 base--3.10--0/50

    1993on--205 Cab+van+base--3.40--0/50

    1986-90--309GTi--3.80--0/50

    1990-93--309GTi+GTi16S--5.00--1/15

    1994on--306 S16+GTi6--4.20--1/20

    1997on--306 1.8 16v--3.40--1/20

    1998on Xsara base--4.50--1/20

    1998on Xsara VTS--5.00--1/20

    1993on ZX base+16v--0.00-1/00

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    • Posted 30th Dec 2013 at 13:46
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    eddy_gti6

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    Post #9
    Same camber then but 0.80 extra toe on the xsara.

    Jeffers you had your rear arms machined to give you 2oC camber or was that someone else? Worth doing?

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    Posted 30th Dec 2013 at 13:52
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    eddy_gti6

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    Post #10
    Was it russian guy who has tried different set ups too or was it mainley fronts he was messing around with? Remember reading he had one of the best handling 306s on here I think?

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    Posted 30th Dec 2013 at 13:55
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    jord294

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    Post #11
    craig-gti6 had a rebuilt beam off me for his 306. lowered 30mm and using 21mm bars and vts arms. the car definitly sat differently.

    jorg had a beam off me with 23.5mm bars, 30mm arb and extra camber on vts arms. put it this way, there was that much camber, i think he had to use spacers to stop the top of the wheels rubbing the inner arches.

    as jamie said, i'm not a fan of hybrid arbs. my ideal set up is 21mm tbs, solid mounts, std 24mm arb, and bilstein shocks.

    i'd only use a 30mm arb if i had at least 23.5mm bars and at least a 250lb spring on decent coilovers.

    it's all about balancing the car out

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    Posted 30th Dec 2013 at 14:21
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    eliotrw

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    Post #12
    And my car is set up exactly as jord says up top and is the absolute ******* bomb on a roundabout Razz

    I have a hybrid in the garage and tbh i will probably sell it as i dont really see how the handling can get better than it is now anyway.
    Especially considering i have long gone tyres right now

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    Posted 30th Dec 2013 at 14:26
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    aaron6

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    Post #13
    From what I've seen the hybrid arbs either quickly on the splines due to a cheesey material or are very badly spline rolled and possibly not heat treated correctly. I have a 1" arb and it seems fine.

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    Posted 30th Dec 2013 at 15:22
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    eddy_gti6

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    Post #14
    Fronts arent a problem as I have some gaz gha's with adjustable top mounts and stiffer springs are cheap enough to get hold of too

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    Posted 30th Dec 2013 at 16:56
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    jeffers Forum Admin

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    Post #15
    eddy_gti6 wrote:
    Same camber then but 0.80 extra toe on the xsara.

    Jeffers you had your rear arms machined to give you 2oC camber or was that someone else? Worth doing?

    3 degrees Chris which is the standard setting Martin is tooled up to do. Yes IMO we'll worth doing if ur going to be mainly track biased.

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    Posted 30th Dec 2013 at 18:58
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    daver6

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    Post #16
    I've got a hybrid arb and 21s with Bilstein challenge dampers and the car is s**t on B-roads.

    The back end feels too soft or far too under-damped. The car was great on the ring and is good on a roads, but I like flying around b-roads and it seems as if the back end can't keep up with the undulations

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    Posted 2nd Jan 2014 at 20:27
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    eliotrw

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    Post #17
    Hmmm.

    Well I have a Standard arb with 21's and Bilstein challenges and my car handles amazingly and the back is absolutely in no way underdamped. Its pretty stiff tbh.
    Handles amazing.

    I have solid mounts also

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    Posted 2nd Jan 2014 at 20:35
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    daver6

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    Post #18
    I have new genuine mounts and the car is fantastic around bends and that but just if you're driving down a b road, my old 130k axle handled the road A LOT better than the new.

    I'm talking the difference between being able to do 60 (and above, I'm sure) on old and then feeling as if the back end was "unstable" at 40

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    Posted 2nd Jan 2014 at 20:41
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    eddy_gti6

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    Post #19
    Just fitted my gaz gha's with adjustable top mounts today. Going to drop the axle off my hdi estate and stick it on my 6 as it has 21mm bars as standard, also waiting on a set of solid axle mounts to arrive. Not sure if the arb in the estate is the same as the one in a gti6 but I can always just swap them over. Just need a decent set of shocks to go on. I have a brand new set of TA technics rear shocks I may put on for the time being tho.

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    Posted 2nd Jan 2014 at 20:44
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    eliotrw

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    Post #20
    daver6 wrote:
    I have new genuine mounts and the car is fantastic around bends and that but just if you're driving down a b road, my old 130k axle handled the road A LOT better than the new.

    I'm talking the difference between being able to do 60 (and above, I'm sure) on old and then feeling as if the back end was "unstable" at 40

    Literally I can pick any roundabout I want and basically go around and around and hilarious speeds, There are B roads near me where I can easily add 50% on any of the corners and my tyres are s**t

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    Posted 2nd Jan 2014 at 20:57
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    daver6

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    Post #21
    eliotrw wrote:
    daver6 wrote:
    I have new genuine mounts and the car is fantastic around bends and that but just if you're driving down a b road, my old 130k axle handled the road A LOT better than the new.

    I'm talking the difference between being able to do 60 (and above, I'm sure) on old and then feeling as if the back end was "unstable" at 40

    Literally I can pick any roundabout I want and basically go around and around and hilarious speeds, There are B roads near me where I can easily add 50% on any of the corners and my tyres are s**t


    Roundabouts are fine as they're flat. It's the bumps, its terrible really.

    On certain closed roads/special stages you could easily maintain high speeds now I feel its scary at half the speed

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    Posted 2nd Jan 2014 at 21:03
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    jord294

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    Post #22
    Imho, hybrids don't work efficiently, especially with the o/e rubber mounts

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    Posted 2nd Jan 2014 at 22:52
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    JWP EFi

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    Post #23
    chris - your HDi's axle will more than likely have the puny 18mm ARB (or 19,cant remember lol), easy enough to take it out though and put the GTi's 24mm bar in, in fact it'll take me all of 10 mins when i come down on sunday, i'll even supply you with one, hows that sound?!
    Posted 2nd Jan 2014 at 22:56
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    JWP EFi

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    Post #24
    jord294 wrote:
    Imho, hybrids don't work efficiently, especially with the o/e rubber mounts


    good point, i noticed the back end would jump about a bit, almost as if the road wheels were oval, solid mounts cured it
    Posted 2nd Jan 2014 at 22:57
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    eddy_gti6

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    Post #25
    Ideal if you want to bring ine down. Since I noticed you have 3 or 4 kicking around in the garage on Wednesday LOL

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    Posted 3rd Jan 2014 at 00:32
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