Post #226
got a email back, they will supply these for 100 quid delievered, I could ask about a group discount if enough people want them
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| Author | Subject: *FINISHED* SUPERCHARGER KITS |
 chris with a pug
Seasoned Pro  Location: Southampton Registered: 16 Feb 2003 Posts: 5,366 Status: Offline |
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 Posted 16th Oct 2007 at 01:02
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garry
Regular  Location: Crowland Registered: 13 Feb 2005 Posts: 305 Status: Offline |
Post #227
I have been looking into injectors for my low boost set up. From what I have researched the std gti6 ones are good for 235bhp. They flow 74 cc/min each at 100% duty @ 3bar (as flow tested by a Lad over on the drivers forum)85% duty is 252 cc/min (for all 4) 80% duty is 237 cc/min (for all 4) I am not an expert on this, but I think we will need bigger injectors. A possible budget soloution would be the Saab Red injectors used on the 2.3 turbos. They have a four hole outlet that will suit our engines (apparently you have different head designs for differnt applications ie 8v and 16v as they want the fuel squirting into differnt places) Another thing I found was a basic formulae for working out the flow we need. CC/min x 4/5 = bhp I assume the 4/5 represents 80% duty which would mean 1 cc of fuel for 1 bhp, is that right? I am just trying to get some ideas flying around so we can get hunting on Ebay! ________________________________________ 205 GTI6 S |
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Posted 16th Oct 2007 at 19:33
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mabgti
NV motors  Location: Bham tunnel @7400rpm Registered: 28 Aug 2003 Posts: 9,127 Status: Offline |
Post #228
quote: Although it doesn't look like it, the standard pump sit's in a swirl pot (the round plastic thing), the pump has 2 pick up's, one from the tank and one from the pot, with a non return valve so the fuel cannot drain from the pot back into the tank. I tried fitting a walbro pump into the standard pot, but you have to remove the non return valve to do it. It doesn't work, as soon as the tank is less than half full you will get severe fuel surge on cornering. The only way to do it is to run the standard pump feeding a swirl pot and then a high pressure pump from there. Mine sits a lot lower now with supporting brackets. I only have problems with really low fuel and reserve is a little less effective. P.S Rich where have you routed your power steering cooler? mabgti has attached the following image: ________________________________________ Team Supercharged Gti-6NV Motorsport Automotive Performance Tuning 0121 448 7515 ECU Remapping/ DPF removal VAG/BMW Diag and Option Coding Peugeot Planet ECU coding/transponder programming etc www.nvmotorsport.com Facebook Page Project S6 |
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Posted 16th Oct 2007 at 20:07
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rich_w
Seasoned Pro  Location: Havant, Hampshire Registered: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 5,412 Status: Offline |
Post #229
quote: P.S Rich where have you routed your power steering cooler? I routed it to the bin and left it there  No need for it, just took it out and joined the pipes together.... ________________________________________ Contact Details:rich@lynxpowerengineering.co.uk 07732 822546 |
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Posted 16th Oct 2007 at 20:11
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puglover
Banned! Location: Far out there Registered: 08 Jun 2006 Posts: 6,095 Status: Offline |
Post #230
what is the cooler just the stupid loop of pipe that runs below the rad?? |
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Posted 16th Oct 2007 at 20:14
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gazzerdaman
Seasoned Pro  Location: Chelmsford Registered: 25 Sep 2003 Posts: 10,283 Status: Offline |
Post #231
 ________________________________________ GaryCherry Red GTi 6 |
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Posted 16th Oct 2007 at 20:21
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rich_w
Seasoned Pro Location: Havant, Hampshire Registered: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 5,412 Status: Offline |
Post #232
quote: I have been looking into injectors for my low boost set up. From what I have researched the std gti6 ones are good for 235bhp. They flow 74 cc/min each at 100% duty @ 3bar (as flow tested by a Lad over on the drivers forum) 85% duty is 252 cc/min (for all 4) 80% duty is 237 cc/min (for all 4) I am not an expert on this, but I think we will need bigger injectors. A possible budget soloution would be the Saab Red injectors used on the 2.3 turbos. They have a four hole outlet that will suit our engines (apparently you have different head designs for differnt applications ie 8v and 16v as they want the fuel squirting into differnt places) Another thing I found was a basic formulae for working out the flow we need. CC/min x 4/5 = bhp I assume the 4/5 represents 80% duty which would mean 1 cc of fuel for 1 bhp, is that right? I am just trying to get some ideas flying around so we can get hunting on Ebay! Gary, In principle your calculations are correct; however it's really a case of getting the first car on the dyno and seeing what they can give. It depends on many things, BSFC particularly which isn't known until the car is tuned up properly. The BSFC of my car is 0.56 though, if you want to use that for the purposes of calculations. You can increase the flow capability of the standard injectors by increasing duty cycle from 80% (my 440 cc/min injectors are at 100% duty above 7K RPM), and increasing the fuel pressure from 3 BAR to 4 BAR as I have done. With some extra duty cycle, and increased fuel pressure, you should be able to get close to 250BHP on standard injectors. You can get a 4 BAR regulator from VW VR6 engines amongst other sources, which will fit straight into the fuel rail. Or you could get an FSE style adjustable regulator. Until you I get the 1st car done I can't offer conclusive advice, but if bigger injectors are needed, I would get the Bosch 440 cc/min as I use. These work well with the standard ECU, and will give enough for 400 BHP if you ever fancy more power after the 250 BHP conversion. The Bosch 440 cc/min injectors are best bought from eBay US. Much cheaper than here. You can get 8 of them for $440 inc. delivery... That works out at £216 for 8. So you can sell the other set of four, and they will then cost you £108. Extremely cheap for brand new injectors... See here http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/8-42lb-42-lb-hr-Bosch-EV1-Fuel-Injectors-440CC-LS1_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33554QQihZ012QQitemZ220159301363QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW Another note is that unless all people buy the same injectors for the low-boost setup, I won't be offering a generic map/ECU flashing service. Each car will require a custom map. It's not a bad thing - just a little more money. I need to chat with Chip Wizzards more on the matter. I think custom remaps may be the best solution because people are buying all different size intercoolers etc. Its open to discussion. ________________________________________ Contact Details:rich@lynxpowerengineering.co.uk 07732 822546 |
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Posted 16th Oct 2007 at 20:43
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rich_w
Seasoned Pro Location: Havant, Hampshire Registered: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 5,412 Status: Offline |
Post #233
Wonder how pages long/hits this thread will of had by the time all conversions are finished  ________________________________________ Contact Details:rich@lynxpowerengineering.co.uk 07732 822546 |
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Posted 16th Oct 2007 at 20:45
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garry
Regular Location: Crowland Registered: 13 Feb 2005 Posts: 305 Status: Offline |
Post #234
Thanks rich,Regarding your point about using the big injectors, that does seem to solve the problem with good future potential but, I was under the impression that if the injectors are too big they are hard to control under lower loads. Otherwise I would have thought most manufacturers would use massive injectors all the time. Having said that, your car probably has similar characteristics to the low boost version from low to mid range then goes nuts when the boost comes in at the top end. Which would suggest it is OK to use the big injectors! Personally, I was thinking having a custom remap because my car is a little different from the majority of the conversions anyway. PS What is BSFC?! ________________________________________ 205 GTI6 S |
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Posted 16th Oct 2007 at 21:15
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rich_w
Seasoned Pro Location: Havant, Hampshire Registered: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 5,412 Status: Offline |
Post #235
quote: Thanks rich, Regarding your point about using the big injectors, that does seem to solve the problem with good future potential but, I was under the impression that if the injectors are too big they are hard to control under lower loads. Otherwise I would have thought most manufacturers would use massive injectors all the time. Having said that, your car probably has similar characteristics to the low boost version from low to mid range then goes nuts when the boost comes in at the top end. Which would suggest it is OK to use the big injectors! Personally, I was thinking having a custom remap because my car is a little different from the majority of the conversions anyway. PS What is BSFC?! Garry The low boost conversion will be identical to mine upto circa 5000 RPM, at which point the boost control ring will start to become restrictive and the boost will start to increase more slowly. So, on that basis, the bigger injectors will be fine - your right in saying you shouldn't over-size them or you will have problems at idle etc, but there is enough scope on the standard ECU to adjust for this, my car idles exactly as a standard car does. I wouldn't go bigger than 440 cc/min though. BSFC is Brake Specific Fuel Consumption. Its the amount of fuel the engine uses per horse-power produced. Generally 0.4-0.5 for N/A engines, and 0.5-0.65 for forced induction engines. For example, for my car, 390 HP x 0.56 BSFC = 218.4 lbs/hr of fuel at full chat, or 2.29 litres/min. That means it would cost me about £2.50 a minute to run if I drove at 7000+ RPM everywhere  ________________________________________ Contact Details:rich@lynxpowerengineering.co.uk 07732 822546 |
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Posted 16th Oct 2007 at 22:01
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ash
Six Addict  Location: Chelmsford Registered: 25 Mar 2003 Posts: 7,520 Status: Offline |
Post #236
I have 4x 440cc Cossie Grey Injectors available for £120. Genuine Bosch, even still have the boxes. |
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Posted 17th Oct 2007 at 00:45
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mabgti
NV motors Location: Bham tunnel @7400rpm Registered: 28 Aug 2003 Posts: 9,127 Status: Offline |
Post #237
Cossie injectors are low impedence ash________________________________________ Team Supercharged Gti-6NV Motorsport Automotive Performance Tuning 0121 448 7515 ECU Remapping/ DPF removal VAG/BMW Diag and Option Coding Peugeot Planet ECU coding/transponder programming etc www.nvmotorsport.com Facebook Page Project S6 |
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Posted 17th Oct 2007 at 06:31
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zac
Seasoned Pro  Location: Leeds city centre Registered: 26 Dec 2005 Posts: 2,627 Status: Offline |
Post #238
Surely running them at 100% won't do the injector driver any good?I'll be happy if they'll cope with 250bhp @ 90% duty cycle. Think I'm inlclined to upgrade though; better to be safe than sorry.  ________________________________________ Hit the limiter in 6th gear at 169mph (GPS - TomTom on the German autobahn). Still pulling like a train too. Cheers- Phase 3 GTi-6 (409hp 'charged weekend toy) - Phase 2.5 Rallye (daily driver) R.I.P Pete Sims |
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Posted 18th Oct 2007 at 00:46
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rich_w
Seasoned Pro Location: Havant, Hampshire Registered: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 5,412 Status: Offline |
Post #239
100% has been fine on mine.I guess its down to the build quality of injectors. Zac, Wayne has given me a load of part numbers for Bosch injectors which he feels are well suited to the low boost conversion. Will post them tomorrow. If not the 558's (what i'm using) should be OK). Also had a chat with him about getting your car booked in. Rich ________________________________________ Contact Details:rich@lynxpowerengineering.co.uk 07732 822546 |
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Posted 18th Oct 2007 at 01:35
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midlife
Seasoned Pro  Location: Colne, Lancashire Registered: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 7,544 Status: Offline |
Post #240
My intercooler arrived today Total cost delivered £150. Best thing was that the vendor put the value on the customs paperwork at $100 and ticked the box to say it was a gift without me asking him to, so no import duty to pay. What a result, I'm well chuffed with it, just need to rip the front end off now to see how it will fit. Its a big fooker      ________________________________________ Get used to seeing the yellow one !!! Team 330™ Team "no front end or engine" Team "LIMITED EDITION" I live for the 306 sticker  Team 0-60 in 6.44 & standing qtr in 14.808 @ 94.55mph all with std engine 203bhp Corolla T-Sport daily driver stealthier than Kwai Chang Caine |
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Posted 19th Oct 2007 at 06:15
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gnrlee
Forum Admin Location: Leeds Registered: 20 Aug 2005 Posts: 8,882 Status: Offline |
Post #241
quote: no need for that these days you can bring as many as you want (for personal use)  back now that were in the E.U.   Nice peice ok kit mind! ________________________________________ Proud Member of the ASTOR Owners Club |
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Posted 19th Oct 2007 at 06:39
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midlife
Seasoned Pro Location: Colne, Lancashire Registered: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 7,544 Status: Offline |
Post #242
f*ck me, my secret's out ________________________________________ Get used to seeing the yellow one !!!Team 330™ Team "no front end or engine" Team "LIMITED EDITION" I live for the 306 sticker Team 0-60 in 6.44 & standing qtr in 14.808 @ 94.55mph all with std engine 203bhp Corolla T-Sport daily driver stealthier than Kwai Chang Caine |
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Posted 19th Oct 2007 at 06:42
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phillipm
Seasoned Pro  Location: Rotherham Registered: 15 Oct 2006 Posts: 20,607 Status: Offline |
Post #243
Nah, surely it's a giant beer cooler?________________________________________ - Bespoke rollcages/additions/adjustments. Half cages right up to complete custom spaceframes - MSA/FIA spec, CDS, ROPT, T45, etc - PM meEmail me! Custom-made polybushes available - need an odd size or fitment? - anything from batch work to one-off pieces. |
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Posted 19th Oct 2007 at 06:53
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chris with a pug
Seasoned Pro Location: Southampton Registered: 16 Feb 2003 Posts: 5,366 Status: Offline |
Post #244
Thats the same as mine, he did that for me too with the gift so its all good |
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Posted 22nd Oct 2007 at 23:44
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midlife
Seasoned Pro Location: Colne, Lancashire Registered: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 7,544 Status: Offline |
Post #245
I dont think they are the same Chris yours is for an RX7 And mine is for a Buick Grand National AM Mine is: Core Size: 18"X12"X4" Overall Size: 25"x16"x4" 3" Inlet & Outlets 4" Thick Core Like I said its a big fooker I'm sure there will be bugger all difference though. ________________________________________ Get used to seeing the yellow one !!!Team 330™ Team "no front end or engine" Team "LIMITED EDITION" I live for the 306 sticker Team 0-60 in 6.44 & standing qtr in 14.808 @ 94.55mph all with std engine 203bhp Corolla T-Sport daily driver stealthier than Kwai Chang Caine |
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Posted 23rd Oct 2007 at 01:46
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chris with a pug
Seasoned Pro Location: Southampton Registered: 16 Feb 2003 Posts: 5,366 Status: Offline |
Post #246
I can see the differnce now lol the box it came in is the same though, yours is bigger, my inlets are 2.5 and 3 inch core |
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Posted 23rd Oct 2007 at 18:05
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midlife
Seasoned Pro Location: Colne, Lancashire Registered: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 7,544 Status: Offline |
Post #247
I am hoping that the bigger core will reduce the speed of the air & reduce the temp of the inlet charge ________________________________________ Get used to seeing the yellow one !!!Team 330™ Team "no front end or engine" Team "LIMITED EDITION" I live for the 306 sticker Team 0-60 in 6.44 & standing qtr in 14.808 @ 94.55mph all with std engine 203bhp Corolla T-Sport daily driver stealthier than Kwai Chang Caine |
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Posted 24th Oct 2007 at 06:31
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phillipm
Seasoned Pro Location: Rotherham Registered: 15 Oct 2006 Posts: 20,607 Status: Offline |
Post #248
Should do.Downside is there's a big f*ck-off intercooler to fill up everytime you get on the throttle  ________________________________________ - Bespoke rollcages/additions/adjustments. Half cages right up to complete custom spaceframes - MSA/FIA spec, CDS, ROPT, T45, etc - PM meEmail me! Custom-made polybushes available - need an odd size or fitment? - anything from batch work to one-off pieces. |
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Posted 24th Oct 2007 at 06:49
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micubussi
Regular  Location: Sosnowiec Registered: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 106 Status: Offline |
Post #249
I've read the thread  But i have some questions to be sure that i was understand whole right.All my questions are about Low boost (up to 250bhp). 1. is it needed to mount oil cooler ? 2 I have to make lower compresion or it isnt needed? but if is, how to do it? With low compresion gasket or custom pistons? 3.I dont need any forged part, it right? 4.the clutch will be standard but gearbox need to fit 5 from Hdi? 5.Full costs without Rotax charger is about 1k? With full option (charger, IC etc) its about 3-3,5k ? 6.What about low rev? between 1,5- 3k rev,the car is weaker than standard gti6? 7. After this mod we dont have power steering? 8.Does somebody know , times at 0-60mph, 0-100mph, and ¼ mile for low boost (aprox 250bhp)? 9. How much fuel i need to do 60 miles at the city, if i drive slow, up to 3k rev? That Rotax charger increase fuel consumption at low rev? (up to 3k) 10. Standard injectors are good up to 250bhp? ________________________________________ micu |
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Posted 24th Oct 2007 at 09:27
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gnrlee
Forum Admin Location: Leeds Registered: 20 Aug 2005 Posts: 8,882 Status: Offline |
Post #250
i wouldn't worry too mutch mate they have all been sold  mite be avalible next year possibly  ________________________________________ Proud Member of the ASTOR Owners Club |
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Posted 24th Oct 2007 at 09:55
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