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Author Subject: Aluminium welding boost pipes
Day666

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Post #51
That Nick Charles 206 engine isn't going well ....
Posted 4th May 2016 at 11:51
rich_w

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Post #52
6waysforward wrote:
Tbh i would love a medium boost.
But i would assume to do it right, you would need to use normal compression forged pistons or slightly lower which are the same price iirc as high boost pistons.
Then forged rods.
Then the engine would need a build with the normal stuff bearings/seals...............etc etc.
Also you would want a upgraded clutch as the standard ones don't like getting as ass whooping from low boost as it is.
Then new injectors as the std ones probably wouldn't be man enough. Dunno

So by the time you have paid for that lot, you would be in it as much as high boost anyways bar the fuel pump, swirl pot and fmic.
But having said that it would be more manageable and should be more resistant to a thrashing.



I was suggesting 300 BHP on standard internals.

We have never tried to find the limits of the standard engine - we always pitched it at c. 250 BHP because this can be achieved with a relatively low amount of boost, and would be completely safe.

I suspect you could get nearer 300 BHP on the standard engine.

The only issue is the compression ratio. If it needed it, we could reduce it by making a custom HG, which is thicker. This would be a thicker stainless steel core, with two spring steel outer sections. This would be better than a decomp plate. We would only drop the compression to say 10:1 or 10.3:1.

Low boost injectors would do 300 BHP fine, as would the standard fuel pump. The low-boost intercooler would be fine too Smile

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Posted 4th May 2016 at 12:38
Day666

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Post #53
Now you got them all thinking Rich Whistle
Posted 4th May 2016 at 12:53
daveyboy

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Post #54
Nah, people are seduced by the power, can't see people consciously electing to have less power, even if it's a really good idea.

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Posted 4th May 2016 at 13:24
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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Post #55
I found all three stages of boost interesting and worthwhile.

With the low boost, it allowed me to learn how to drive the car well with an extra 90bhp over standard and I honestly felt shortly after the conversion that I would never need any more power. However six months later I was bored with 260bhp and turned my attention to building a high boost engine.

I found this was awesome and really suited pretty much everything I wanted to do with the car, the power balance felt right.
However, when the option came up for super high boost I felt that I'd come this far and might as well go the full hog and so I did.

Interestingly, I found it better on the road, especially fast twisting roads where mid range was most important, however I felt I lost a bit low down and top end which made the biggest difference at places like Prescott Hill and the like, where the high boost was certainly better.

Overall though, I prefer the super high boost for all road use and as that is where the car is used (albeit occasionally) it works well for me.

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Posted 4th May 2016 at 13:36
manthos

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Post #56
quote:



I was suggesting 300 BHP on standard internals.

We have never tried to find the limits of the standard engine - we always pitched it at c. 250 BHP because this can be achieved with a relatively low amount of boost, and would be completely safe.

I suspect you could get nearer 300 BHP on the standard engine.

The only issue is the compression ratio. If it needed it, we could reduce it by making a custom HG, which is thicker. This would be a thicker stainless steel core, with two spring steel outer sections. This would be better than a decomp plate. We would only drop the compression to say 10:1 or 10.3:1.

Low boost injectors would do 300 BHP fine, as would the standard fuel pump. The low-boost intercooler would be fine too Smile


Rich this sounds very interesting I think you should try it mate.

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Posted 4th May 2016 at 15:39
Day666

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Post #57
Unless it's with someone else's Money Manthos I don't think much development will happen ....Rich may disagree but how many people really would pay to have that done ?...maybe 6 on here ?

Would it be wise to do it on a engine with 90/120k ....my view is no Whistle
Posted 4th May 2016 at 15:55
welshpug!

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Post #58
mileage is irrelevant!

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Posted 4th May 2016 at 16:03
allye

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Post #59
Is there a measurement that equates to BHP with the restriction ring? A certain size give you XXXBHP etc?

I'd happily chuck 300BHP through mine once it's up and running, only a engine after all!

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Posted 4th May 2016 at 16:04
Day666

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Post #60
welshpug! wrote:
mileage is irrelevant!


Really Mei ?
You think a looked after 120k is as good as a 50k looked after engine ?.....

Well I hope your right as I don't feel as lively as when I was 25 LOL .....wear & tear & I've looked after my self LOL
Posted 4th May 2016 at 16:11
welshpug!

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Post #61
there aren't any 50k looked after engines Razz

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Posted 4th May 2016 at 16:36
manthos

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Post #62
Damien I agree with welshpug as long as the block has been looked after it doesn't matter too much how many miles it has covered you can change all the external parts

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Posted 4th May 2016 at 19:08
Day666

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Post #63
I don't often disagree with you Mei Razz

But Valve stem oil seals / piston rings / crank seals / cam seals / big end bearings & float etc etc wear guys ...are you saying a well looked after low mileage car say 90k is no better than a high mileage say 170k one ?.....totally mad LOL ...

Mines on genuine 120k miles but had all the head gasket & valve stem seals done at 90k ...thank god ...maybe not looked after Whistle

Manthos ....it's the internal parts I'm on about Thumbs up
Posted 4th May 2016 at 19:32
rich_w

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Post #64
allye wrote:
Is there a measurement that equates to BHP with the restriction ring? A certain size give you XXXBHP etc?

I'd happily chuck 300BHP through mine once it's up and running, only a engine after all!


Not exactly as there are lots of parameters that effect this. It doesn't take much though... the low boost runs a restrictor of around 38mm, the super high boost cars are on 50mm and that gives up to 450 BHP.

Smile

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Posted 4th May 2016 at 19:53
demondriverdan

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Post #65
I guess at the end of the day if the engine is standard and it s**ts itself, you've not lost a huge amount? New engines can be had for ~£300 and I guess the worst case is somehow a piston fires itself out of the block and through the supercharger!

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Posted 4th May 2016 at 20:28
welshpug!

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Post #66
get a turbo, group A cars are making 330 through 38mm restrictors Big grin

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Posted 4th May 2016 at 20:43
fatlapit

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Post #67
A turbo fixes all the above which is what ive been saying for years. The only extra things u need over a high boost and super high boost is an exhaust manifold and a down pipe.

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Posted 4th May 2016 at 21:27
manthos

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Post #68
fatlapit wrote:
A turbo fixes all the above which is what ive been saying for years. The only extra things u need over a high boost and super high boost is an exhaust manifold and a down pipe.


I disagree because with a turbo you have to change the internals and make it a low compression engine from the start. They both have there benefits.

Personally I think a Low boost with LSD is enough for a gti6 get the handling sorted then just learn how to drive it properly and it's enough on a track

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Posted 4th May 2016 at 23:44
manthos

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Post #69
Does anyone on here run a low boost with a stand alone ecu as I want to upgrade the ecu

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Posted 4th May 2016 at 23:45
phillipm

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Post #70
welshpug! wrote:
get a turbo, group A cars are making 330 through 38mm restrictors Big grin


Bit fancier restrictor designs there though...

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Posted 5th May 2016 at 00:00
fatlapit

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Post #71
Theres plenty of low boost turbos on standard internals

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Posted 5th May 2016 at 06:23
armzsc6

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Post #72
rich_w wrote:
6waysforward wrote:
Tbh i would love a medium boost.
But i would assume to do it right, you would need to use normal compression forged pistons or slightly lower which are the same price iirc as high boost pistons.
Then forged rods.
Then the engine would need a build with the normal stuff bearings/seals...............etc etc.
Also you would want a upgraded clutch as the standard ones don't like getting as ass whooping from low boost as it is.
Then new injectors as the std ones probably wouldn't be man enough. Dunno

So by the time you have paid for that lot, you would be in it as much as high boost anyways bar the fuel pump, swirl pot and fmic.
But having said that it would be more manageable and should be more resistant to a thrashing.



I was suggesting 300 BHP on standard internals.

We have never tried to find the limits of the standard engine - we always pitched it at c. 250 BHP because this can be achieved with a relatively low amount of boost, and would be completely safe.

I suspect you could get nearer 300 BHP on the standard engine.

The only issue is the compression ratio. If it needed it, we could reduce it by making a custom HG, which is thicker. This would be a thicker stainless steel core, with two spring steel outer sections. This would be better than a decomp plate. We would only drop the compression to say 10:1 or 10.3:1.

Low boost injectors would do 300 BHP fine, as would the standard fuel pump. The low-boost intercooler would be fine too Smile


Tempted..... thicker reinforced HG slightly lowered comp ratio 40mm ring or so and a mapping session with Wayne.....

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Posted 5th May 2016 at 07:34
aaron6

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Post #73
Do that Pete!! A good compromise. And if it goes bang just get another lump and go back to low boost.

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Posted 5th May 2016 at 08:18
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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Post #74
fatlapit wrote:
Theres plenty of low boost turbos on standard internals


Exactly this. As long as the boost is low you can run it on standard internals regardless of what method of boost you are using. Yes

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Posted 5th May 2016 at 09:42
armzsc6

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Post #75
stan_306gti6 wrote:
fatlapit wrote:
Theres plenty of low boost turbos on standard internals


Exactly this. As long as the boost is low you can run it on standard internals regardless of what method of boost you are using. Yes


Yes I see loads of type r engines with low blow turbos on them and are absolutely rapid.

If someone did a bolt on kit for a reasonable price ( not from DP price) then that's the way I would have gone. But depending on how it's setup turbos make more boost lower down particularly if it's VGT which the rods can't handle. Less revs = more load. So not sure how the standard rods would hold up. I know a couple of civic type r owners who have found out how cheese like the rods are when boosted LOL

But what puts me off is sorting out turbo relocation and downpipe and manifold etc as well as feeds and returns etc. It's obviously doable but takes a lot of time effort patience etc to do it yourself like Chris has.

Come next year I would be tempted by testing out slightly more boost on a good quality thick head gasket with less compression.

I do hear tales of some of the lads in Holland running 300bhp on standard internals with turbos. So I'm sure it would hold fine. Think I would put ARP rod bolts in for good measure tho.

________________________________________

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12x 306's owned so far

Cambelts, clutches, service work carried out on All makes and models, Peugeot Citroen / mitsubishi specialist.
Pug planet / Citroen Lexia diagnostics / code reads available.
Posted 5th May 2016 at 11:26

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