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Author Subject: Aluminium welding boost pipes
6waysforward

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Post #26
Tbh i would love a medium boost.
But i would assume to do it right, you would need to use normal compression forged pistons or slightly lower which are the same price iirc as high boost pistons.
Then forged rods.
Then the engine would need a build with the normal stuff bearings/seals...............etc etc.
Also you would want a upgraded clutch as the standard ones don't like getting as ass whooping from low boost as it is.
Then new injectors as the std ones probably wouldn't be man enough. Dunno

So by the time you have paid for that lot, you would be in it as much as high boost anyways bar the fuel pump, swirl pot and fmic.
But having said that it would be more manageable and should be more resistant to a thrashing.

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Posted 3rd May 2016 at 17:27
daveyboy

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Post #27
Exactly, everyone who pays out for all the gear to do it properly wants the most power possible. I'm going against the grain but I'm of the opinion that anything more than 300 in a front drive is a bit of a waste of money unless you have everything else upgraded to match. And how often is 300 BHP going to feel like it's not enough in a 1,300kg car?

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Posted 3rd May 2016 at 18:08
manthos

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Post #28
daveyboy wrote:
Exactly, everyone who pays out for all the gear to do it properly wants the most power possible. I'm going against the grain but I'm of the opinion that anything more than 300 in a front drive is a bit of a waste of money unless you have everything else upgraded to match. And how often is 300 BHP going to feel like it's not enough in a 1,300kg car?


I remember Stan saying his car was at its absolute best somewhere between 330 and 380 bhp after that he has lost speed round tracks and up Prescott he has only gained in a straight line from a rolling start like on the motorway. so I say you never ever need anything more than 350bhp with a LSD anything more is a complete waste on a 6 in my personal opinion.

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Posted 3rd May 2016 at 18:19
phillipm

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Post #29
Probably about the same amount of times 370bhp is required in a 800kg car on mud terrain tyres...

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Posted 3rd May 2016 at 18:20
manthos

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Post #30
therefore even if I went high boost I would map it at 350. I would probably run a ecu with 3 settings. 250bhp 350bhp and then 450 only to be used very rarely just to embarrass some supercars in a straight line but only because the engine could take it

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Posted 3rd May 2016 at 18:23
barrym

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Post #31
Don't think its as easy as just mapping though is it? Isn't the boost available controlled by the restrictor ring?

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Posted 3rd May 2016 at 19:00
prism7guy

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Post #32
Yeah i'd imagine the best way of going about that would be a selection of different sized pullies or various size boost rings to correspond to which map you're set to run on.
If you're running a low compression engine to handle 450bhp then it'll run far from ideal if only pushing out 250bhp as far as i'm aware, can be done though.

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Posted 3rd May 2016 at 19:05
pete_rallye

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Post #33
Couldn't you use some form of boost controller, like an adjustable pressure regulator, to maintain a certain boost pressure? Could be an adjustable spring loaded traditional regulator, or even some sort of stepper motor that uses PWM to operate. Could even use it like traction control to allow more or less boost depending on steering angle, with a smart enough ecu. I might be getting a bit carried away though.

You can have different maps within reason by adjusting the advance timing but not sure it would cope with massive variations in boost.

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Posted 3rd May 2016 at 19:56
armzsc6

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Post #34
It's perfectly possible to just make a larger restrictor ring to cap the boost a bit higher then map accordingly. However that's not the issue it's how far the standard rods can be pushed before they bend like cheese.

Mabz and Wayne did the most tweaking I know of and claimed 290bhp on various rolling roads with a larger opening on the inlet manifold, fettled boost ring and advanced inlet cam timing as well as the 2.5" center exit exhaust I now have on my low boost.

However Mabz broke his car for parts and sold the mapped ecu and his engine as a package to someone.

I then saw literally a couple of months later the guy he sold it to trying to sell just the mapped ecu as the engine went bang.... so I'd say 290 on a standard engine designed for 167 is a bit much. With full compression at least.

Could always either fit uprated bearings and ARP rod bolts and see what it holds like.... or get a do engineering decomp plate as well then map it for around 300bhp with more boost and see what the rods hold up like then.

I've often thought about both but standard low boost and high boost are both proven reliable tried and tested by Rich.

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Posted 3rd May 2016 at 20:13
6waysforward

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Post #35
I think what we are all saying is yes the std engine would take more than low boost. BUT would it last and be reliable..........?
No is the answer.
I believe this is why rich and wayne designed and capped the performance of the lb on std internals.
Rich made the conversion to still be daily drivable and reliable. After all, you don't want to sell something that's going to kill everyone's engines otherwise you will be out of business very quickly.

Yes everyone on low boost has thought about pulling out or opening up the restricter ring but ultimately, it wont last long.

To make a mid boost engine, it would need to be rebuilt with stronger internals etc etc and by the time this has been done you are in high boost territory as i said above.

So it would be up to the individual owner to make the choice. Do i want drive ability or high figures.

Those of you who do track day/hill climb events that are chasing the best times, the old age proven method on weight loss/ better handling and small power gains is the best thing you can do.

But for those of you that want straight line speed/pub talk figures or are able to change a gearbox after every drive, then high boost is the one.

I only went high boost because the bits came up at good prices and i had blown my standard engine. Its natural progression to want to go to the next level. Plus its easy as rich had developed everything for us but to build a med boost, you would need to fund the r&d to get it there.

Thats not to say the guys with super high boost can't drive their cars fast.

I f**king love my high boost dont get me wrong, but my lack of actual track/hill climb experience/ability wont be helped by my extra power.

Unless i catch you on the straights, then your f**ked LOL

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Or ross, olly or stan LOL decide to come out, then i'm f**ked to.

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Posted 3rd May 2016 at 22:37
manthos

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Post #36
As you say there is no point ruining your engine or developing a med boost but if I was to go high boost I would personally restrict it to 350bhp

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Posted 3rd May 2016 at 22:36
superchargedblack1997gti6

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Post #37
At the moment mine is not all useable power a stripped lowboost has been proved by cosmic spanner I'm very impressed by his! When I get the sequential I'm looking at (thanks Damien Smile ) my car will be able to be driven hard without fear of breaking the gears. Manthos stick with low boost till you're sure of what you want? If you spend the money spend it on a lsd sticky tyres and keep getting faster Smile then when you're able to drive it flat out then think of upping the power Superman

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Posted 3rd May 2016 at 22:46
manthos

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Post #38
superchargedblack1997gti6 wrote:
At the moment mine is not all useable power a stripped lowboost has been proved by cosmic spanner I'm very impressed by his! When I get the sequential I'm looking at (thanks Damien Smile ) my car will be able to be driven hard without fear of breaking the gears. Manthos stick with low boost till you're sure of what you want? If you spend the money spend it on a lsd sticky tyres and keep getting faster Smile then when you're able to drive it flat out then think of upping the power Superman


That is exactly what I am going to do my friend. What are people recommendating on good tyres for road? I have always had proxies t1r but the lump has always been standard and they have been suficient. However now I shall be needing something better.

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Posted 3rd May 2016 at 22:51
superchargedblack1997gti6

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Post #39
I've run r888s and am on r888r there fine for anything other than standing water/ heavy rain. You won't regret going high boost someday but until you're 100% confident with low boost you'll be fine going high boost. I'd confidently say I could drive my well sorted standard engine Rallye far faster then my high boost unless it was straight roads then not a lot will compete. Enjoy it mate is a great little car have fun 👍

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Posted 3rd May 2016 at 23:14
superchargedblack1997gti6

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Post #40
I'm sur even Welsh pug will agree looking at Dan claytons 106 k20 rotrex that it really really shifts! He must of spent double what I have so far though !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XW22w8ssBWo

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Posted 3rd May 2016 at 23:16
Day666

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Post #41
If you want a fit & forget tyre best all round daily drive then Mich 3....

But if you want a better Trackday tyre/ road tyre ....I think I've used most decent Trackday / road legal just tyres & I would personally say Dunlop DZO3Gs are no1 stiff side walls & they last the longest ...
I've been trying Toyo R888Rs new ones & they are better all round but not a patch on DZO3GS on track ...
I'm sure I've converted DemondriverDan & Rallyash who will agree Whistle
They are cheaper than Toyos also ....
Not to bad in the damp /wet but you don't want to use them in standing water / heavy rain ...

PS ....I went to look at a 280bhp at the flywheel N/A Top top end 306 gti6 Sandy Brown engine on Jenvey 48s for a friend on here yesterday as the car was / engine was 3miles from my house & all I could say was WOW ....but he told me anything he's raced with more power struggles to get it down on N/A engines...so I can't see it being anything difference all round for SC ?
He even said his beats the s**t out of him when on full chat ...what a car though ....only problem is it's so tuned it needs lots of TLC ...
But wish I had the double figure numbers to buy it LOL
Posted 4th May 2016 at 08:35
welshpug!

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Post #42
is that the one in a 306 that used to be alan dixons or a different one?

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Posted 4th May 2016 at 10:08
Day666

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Post #43
welshpug! wrote:
is that the one in a 306 that used to be alan dixons or a different one?


That's the one Mei

But the engines changed & now isn't a 1800 it's a full blown top spec £14k Sandy engine unused apart from dyno both since rebuild from Sandy not mapped or used in the car

Has Satchel rear beam with Coilovers not 106 type
Posted 4th May 2016 at 10:47
superchargedblack1997gti6

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Post #44
Sounds like a good engine Smile full strip down after every 1500 miles or less tho.

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Posted 4th May 2016 at 10:52
Day666

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Post #45
superchargedblack1997gti6 wrote:
Sounds like a good engine Smile full strip down after every 1500 miles or less tho.


Not really Ross ...unless your racing it flat out every weekend ....I recon if I had the cash & the 6-8 good track days a year I want to do it would need looking at every 36months so 18-24 outings to keep it in tip top condition Thumbs up

Not to bad really ?
It's a firebreather / monster Engine with amazing spec

Problem is I've no trailer & have to drive my car to & from tracks Thumbs down
Posted 4th May 2016 at 11:20
welshpug!

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Post #46
only if you race it, used as a road car it'll go a lot longer Smile

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Posted 4th May 2016 at 11:17
Day666

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Post #47
That's it Mei ...looks amazing
I was told just the rear end suspension would cost £2500k if you wanted the same ?
Colin's not taking any work on for the next 12months even if you wanted one ?
Posted 4th May 2016 at 11:28
welshpug!

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Post #48
one of Sandy's top spec 230 bhp Tu engines is in a road car, a Mango Saxo Westcoast.

still does 40 mpg.

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Posted 4th May 2016 at 11:31
Day666

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Post #49
welshpug! wrote:
one of Sandy's top spec 230 bhp Tu engines is in a road car, a Mango Saxo Westcoast.

still does 40 mpg.


Just how good was that Dixon Car Mei ?

It looks like it's had loads of Development one off things done ?
Posted 4th May 2016 at 11:43
welshpug!

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Post #50
not sure Alan ever got the time to develop and get a handle on it before he sold it, but it did get a second higher spec engine built which was around 240 bhp 1.8 alloy engine.

I think it mainly suffered due to weight as it was up against very good TU engines in lighter 106's, with the series regs you struggle to make a 306 as light as a 106.

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Posted 4th May 2016 at 11:44

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