Post #1
Got a car with a hairline crack about 1cm long in the sump. Question is could it be welded with the sump in situ? 
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displaying posts 1 to 25 of 37
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| Author | Subject: Welding experts advice needed |
 pugjim
Seasoned Pro  Location: Sheffield Registered: 11 Mar 2007 Posts: 1,380 Status: Offline |
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 Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 15:30
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rikky
Pikey Location: cheshire Registered: 28 Feb 2004 Posts: 26,797 Status: Offline |
Post #2
probably not very well as you'd want it all cleaned up properly first, including the inside at a guess________________________________________ 306 rallye reproduction decals (full sets/individual decals) | 306 b-pillar textured vinyl weatherstrips306 slam panel esso stickers | 306 yellow / orange / pension fund red side door badges gti6 inlet manifold badges | 306 rear boot badges (p2/p3) winner of Extraction of toys from prams with outstanding vigour award 2009 [source: gti6 owners club] |
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Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 15:32
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic  Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,847 Status: Offline |
Post #3
would never try and do it in situ, is it alloy or steel?the oil will act as a massive heatsink making a bas**rd to weld if its alloy, not so much for steel but it will contaminate the weld. ________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 15:38
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pugjim
Seasoned Pro Location: Sheffield Registered: 11 Mar 2007 Posts: 1,380 Status: Offline |
Post #4
problem is its on a lease car what is going back in about 6 months so the person who is leasing it doesnt want to spend loads fixing it. Was just wondering if there was a quick fix/bodge that would last 6 months  |
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Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 15:42
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dcc
Senior User  Location: Wales Registered: 24 Feb 2009 Posts: 502 Status: Offline |
Post #5
Dont see any reason why not! clean up the surface your welding, its only a sump so as long as you weld it well on the clean side I think it will be fine. I certainly wouldnt have any issue with welding something that way.________________________________________ 205 GTIXsara HDI |
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Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 15:43
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,847 Status: Offline |
Post #6
and therein lies the problem  trying to get oil out of a crack in a container that is full of oil  is it p**sing out? what is the sump made from? ________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 15:49
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pugjim
Seasoned Pro Location: Sheffield Registered: 11 Mar 2007 Posts: 1,380 Status: Offline |
Post #7
its just weeping out, very slightly, its an alloy sump. The company who are leasing the car have tig welding equipment. |
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Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 15:52
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ben306
Seasoned Pro  Location: North West Registered: 17 Jan 2006 Posts: 2,951 Status: Offline |
Post #8
Chemical metal putty worked on my old company car for 9 months before I left the company. (I'd been playing real life Colin McCrea Rally so couldn't send it in to be fixed)________________________________________ My 306 Rallye Project ThreadFew recent Youtube track videos, more on my channel Pair of Rallye's doing a few laps of Anglesey Lap of Anglesey Coastal 3 sisters circuit Few laps at Blyton |
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Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 15:53
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roland rat
Yeeeah Rat fans!  Location: Swansea Registered: 29 Nov 2006 Posts: 22,284 Status: Offline |
Post #9
dcc wrote: Dont see any reason why not! clean up the surface your welding, its only a sump so as long as you weld it well on the clean side I think it will be fine. I certainly wouldnt have any issue with welding something that way. your a pikey  |
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Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 16:04
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roland rat
Yeeeah Rat fans! Location: Swansea Registered: 29 Nov 2006 Posts: 22,284 Status: Offline |
Post #10
pugjim wrote: problem is its on a lease car what is going back in about 6 months so the person who is leasing it doesnt want to spend loads fixing it. Was just wondering if there was a quick fix/bodge that would last 6 months A big Disney plaster should sort it out  |
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Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 16:05
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rikky
Pikey Location: cheshire Registered: 28 Feb 2004 Posts: 26,797 Status: Offline |
Post #11
i'd personally just zip tie a huge sponge to the bottom to soak the oil up with a plastic tray underneath and just leave it till the day you give it back, that's not an MOT fail either cos we've done it before^ not a lie ________________________________________ 306 rallye reproduction decals (full sets/individual decals) | 306 b-pillar textured vinyl weatherstrips306 slam panel esso stickers | 306 yellow / orange / pension fund red side door badges gti6 inlet manifold badges | 306 rear boot badges (p2/p3) winner of Extraction of toys from prams with outstanding vigour award 2009 [source: gti6 owners club] |
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Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 16:08
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,847 Status: Offline |
Post #12
its not going to cost them out but a tube of goop if they have tig equipment, and given they have tig equipment, surely they'd have someone who knows how to weld and the pitfalls of welding up something full of oil?  ________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 16:33
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coskev
Seasoned Pro  Location: Oswestry Registered: 01 Nov 2009 Posts: 3,132 Status: Offline |
Post #13
Taking a sump off isn't a big job on most cars.Otherwise drop the oil and weld it in situ. Pretty sure with a crack in alloy you should drill a hole at both ends of the crack? ________________________________________ Red GTB1756 powered Fabia VRS daily driver,LBSC Gti6 eater........Mac1 ZR R1 kit car build in progress. |
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Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 16:47
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phillipm
Seasoned Pro  Location: Rotherham Registered: 15 Oct 2006 Posts: 20,607 Status: Offline |
Post #14
It'd need to be clean to tig, never going to happen with it on the car, you could try chemical metal and a patch but that's not exactly discrete  ________________________________________ - Bespoke rollcages/additions/adjustments. Half cages right up to complete custom spaceframes - MSA/FIA spec, CDS, ROPT, T45, etc - PM meEmail me! Custom-made polybushes available - need an odd size or fitment? - anything from batch work to one-off pieces. |
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Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 16:49
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,847 Status: Offline |
Post #15
coskev wrote: Pretty sure with a crack in alloy you should drill a hole at both ends of the crack? any crack really, its the same reasoning behind stitch welding when "seam welding" a shell for race or rally cars, weld and inch leave and inch and so on, as a crank in a continuous weld will just follow the weld, a rack in a weld an inch long will only be an inch long. shouldnt need to on a sump though, its not usually a stressed member so just vee-ing the crack out and filling it back up with weld would be sufficient. ________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 17:00
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jimmyhackers
Seasoned Pro  Location: birmingham Registered: 14 Jun 2011 Posts: 1,213 Status: Offline |
Post #16
if you burn through with it in situ you could have a lovely fire on your hands.________________________________________ the world is changed by people in sheds |
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Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 17:11
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daveyboy
aka Jim Davey  Location: Southampton Registered: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 8,648 Status: Offline |
Post #17
Clean it up and sikafkex a square ally plate over the crack, if you do a neat job it won't look too obvious. If you want a reliable weld repair, it will need to come off, be degreased and then welded. You will not get a result trying to weld it in position, the oil in the crack will ruin the weld and cause you even more problems.________________________________________ R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.Some of my services: (See my for sale threads) Engine mount/chassis repair Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION Harness bars |
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Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 18:54
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buzzbrightyear
Seasoned Pro  Location: hiding all receipts for car Registered: 09 Jul 2008 Posts: 11,901 Status: Offline |
Post #18
all the suggestions and nobody's mentioned draining the oil first, get it hot first then leave it to drain for a day or 2.________________________________________ andrew315rawson@live.co.ukMoonstone phase 7 gti6 My Project thread: http://www.306gti6.com/forum/showthread.php?id=119992&page=1 |
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Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 17:56
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,847 Status: Offline |
Post #19
buzzbrightyear wrote: all the suggestions and nobody's mentioned draining the oil first, get it hot first then leave it to drain for a day or 2. guess you didn't read any of mine or Davey's posts then ________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 18:38
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daveyboy
aka Jim Davey Location: Southampton Registered: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 8,648 Status: Offline |
Post #20
buzzbrightyear wrote: all the suggestions and nobody's mentioned draining the oil first, get it hot first then leave it to drain for a day or 2. That won't work, buy a tig off me and try it for yourself to find out why ________________________________________ R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.Some of my services: (See my for sale threads) Engine mount/chassis repair Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION Harness bars |
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Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 18:54
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daveyboy
aka Jim Davey Location: Southampton Registered: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 8,648 Status: Offline |
Post #21
When the bendy busses first came to our neck of the woods they smashed two £1,500 sumps a week for 2 months on the speed bumps around Millbrook. When they found out how much replacements were I got a few to repair. So I have a little experience in this area, vee-out the crack, get the casting vapour blasted, if you can find the ends of the cracks drill them out or run a tee weld across each end to try and stop them spreading further, I often heat the casting to 300 degrees for a few hours to get the oil impregnated in the ally to vapourise, and then crack on with the welding. 100% success with this method, people ask "can't you just put a blob of weld on it?" the answer is always no.________________________________________ R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.Some of my services: (See my for sale threads) Engine mount/chassis repair Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION Harness bars |
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Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 19:00
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stan_306gti6
Forum Admin Location: Kent Registered: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 21,769 Status: Offline |
Post #22
daveyboy wrote: When the bendy busses first came to our neck of the woods they smashed two £1,500 sumps a week for 2 months on the speed bumps around Millbrook. When they found out how much replacements were I got a few to repair. So I have a little experience in this area, vee-out the crack, get the casting vapour blasted, if you can find the ends of the cracks drill them out or run a tee weld across each end to try and stop them spreading further, I often heat the casting to 300 degrees for a few hours to get the oil impregnated in the ally to vapourise, and then crack on with the welding. 100% success with this method, people ask "can't you just put a blob of weld on it?" the answer is always no. This is the best advice. ________________________________________ "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"Peugeot 306 GTi-6 2000 (X), Moonstone  |
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Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 19:05
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dangti6
aka JKshooter  Location: Taunton, Somerset Registered: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 10,308 Status: Offline |
Post #23
How much is weeping?Tesco value oil added when required FTW. ________________________________________  |
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Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 19:08
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clen666
Seasoned Pro  Location: Co. Durham Registered: 12 Feb 2009 Posts: 2,401 Status: Offline |
Post #24
daveyboy wrote: buzzbrightyear wrote: all the suggestions and nobody's mentioned draining the oil first, get it hot first then leave it to drain for a day or 2. That won't work, buy a tig off me and try it for yourself to find out why Jim, have you seen my post in the welders thread? Don't want to take this thread off topic too much, but I was asking about those r-tech welders ________________________________________ Team 'unintentional rat look' |
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Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 19:59
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pugjim
Seasoned Pro Location: Sheffield Registered: 11 Mar 2007 Posts: 1,380 Status: Offline |
Post #25
Heres a picture of the crack, you can just see the drip. Since the engine has cooled its not leaked a drop. |
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Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 20:59
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