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Author Subject: Peogeot 306 GTI 6 Handling - Understeering and how to Kill It
JimmyC379

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Location: Brisbane

Registered: 16 Dec 2011

Posts: 32

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Post #1
Hi All,

I have had the 306 GTI 6 since Christmas and are loving it. I am glade I payed more for the best one I could get. Since having it I have been getting more and more involved in track work. I have fitted upper and lower OMP strut braces and that is about it so far. I am waiting for Koni shocks 30 or 40mm lower with H & R springs to come from the UK so that is next. The problem is that the car on track is understeering to much for my liking and the outer edge of tyres are wearing alot. I was going to get some adjustable tower tops to increase the negative camber on the track to stop this - will this stop the understeering or is the only solution to stiffen up the rear. I was going to fit some 21mm TB's and see if I can get hold of a hybrid ARB [they seem hard to get hold of] as well. I was not going to fit a solid rear mount and are not sure if this will actually help the handling. Also the car does not seem to do the 3 legged dog trick how is this done?

Cheers
Posted 19th Jul 2012 at 11:44
yippeekayay

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Location: wilts

Registered: 27 Oct 2008

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Post #2
dog leg like my avatar.... lift off oversteer... the nature of torsion bars will cause the cocked leg but if you want it to handle and be quick you want to eliminate it not show boat like I pretend to do. There are a few of us heading oz way over the next 6 months so feel free to see if someone shipping stuff out can get stuff for you..... we live for the 306 in the uk and worldwide...

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Posted 19th Jul 2012 at 11:55
eliotrw

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Post #3
Basically it sounds to me that the front is uprated and the rear isn't
Which is your issue.
But i think the things you intending to do will sort it anyway. particularly the 21mmtb's and hybrid arb.

If its a track car you might want 23mm tb's and a 30mm arb instead.
But if its a road car mainly i would stick with what you have suggested

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Posted 19th Jul 2012 at 12:10
JimmyC379

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Location: Brisbane

Registered: 16 Dec 2011

Posts: 32

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Post #4
eliotrw wrote:
If its a track car you might want 23mm tb's and a 30mm arb instead.
But if its a road car mainly i would stick with what you have suggested


No it is still my half week daily driver. I don't really want to go the 23mm's if I can help it cause of the cost would go the 30mm but how hard are they to fit - is it just changing end bearings and caps + no one seems to sell them anymore?

Was also thinking of a Quaife to get better handling as well are they anyhelp to handling with a stock engine?

Here is a clip of the understeering I am talking about you see it at 5.29 [please write pug comments if you want] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rU6JI2BGztE
Posted 19th Jul 2012 at 12:28
eliotrw

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Post #5
I think the main cause of your problems is 100% the fact that the front is stiffened and uprated from standard but the back is just as soft as it used to be.
If you stiffened the back in relation to the front you will reduce the understeer

I think if you did the following
21mm
hybrid arb
solid mounts
uprated shocks

it would restore the balance and improve the handling no end.
I wouldnt think about a lsd until you get to that point and you know that your still not happy

As you say there is additional cost to fitting a 30mm arb as you have to machine the pins i believe

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Posted 19th Jul 2012 at 12:50
JimmyC379

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Location: Brisbane

Registered: 16 Dec 2011

Posts: 32

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Post #6
Cool I will give that a go and see how I go. There is an Arbarth who we race with and I want to keep up with him - hopefully those mods might help.

Cheers
Posted 19th Jul 2012 at 12:55
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,838

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Post #7
check your rear arb is connected to its splines, they do tripod as standard if you drive it right.

try altering your driving style, sounds like your just battering in and hopping, rather than getting it setup and powering out.

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Posted 19th Jul 2012 at 13:02
miles

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Location: Ringwood

Registered: 28 Dec 2002

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Post #8
If it's std at the moment then change all the bush's in the suspension, The car should not under-steer unless you give it death on the throttle

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Road, Track and Race/Rally car preparation to your personal requirements,
Full Workshop & Diagnostic Facilities
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Posted 21st Jul 2012 at 02:02
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

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Post #9
All bushes uprated, 21mm TB's on the rear with solid mounts, 30mm ARB and uprated shocks.

Try dropping the whole car by around 30-40mm. What tyres are you running? Dunno

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Posted 21st Jul 2012 at 08:19
aaron6

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Post #10
The solid mounts are good but not a must. I have gone from having solid mounts back to the rubber ones. I find you can get a harder turn in. Also, where it is generally more fun. I do agree that 21tb and hybrid arb would be a good shout though. But If I were you i'd try that set up 1st before going on solid mounts. They are deffinatly not a necessity and you lose some of the cars charm by doing so. Smile

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Posted 21st Jul 2012 at 09:28
JimmyC379

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Location: Brisbane

Registered: 16 Dec 2011

Posts: 32

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Post #11
Cool. Bushes are all still 100% good but rubber - so you guys recommend urethane all round? Tyres are Bridgestone RE002 and are grippy and alot better than the old Pirelli P6's that were there when I bought the car. I will take your advise aaron6 and not go the solid mounts as I want to avid that if I can. Am looking at getting the hybrid and 21's as soon as I can + paid for and weighting on the Koni kit + will fit urethane all round if that might help as well.

The under-steering is a problem on really tight technical tracks where I don't get out of second gear and the track is very narrow - I am fighting the car from always going straight ahead. I normally try to control this by feathering the accelerator and brake. It is hard to even get lift of oversteer on these circuits because of the front. On double apex 180 degree tight corners understeer is also a problem. The corner I cam off on was mainly cause of to much speed in.

On high speed corners the car feels light and not as planted as I would like. Torque steer is not really a problem at all.

I want to get these things sorted and then get my driving better. I know the car is capable of keeping up with the late model front wheels even if it does not have the power of them but feel these issues need to be fixed to give me more confidence to push further.

Cheers - PS go Mark Webber this weekend!
Posted 21st Jul 2012 at 11:00
phillipm

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Location: Rotherham

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Post #12
What's the alignment like?

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Posted 21st Jul 2012 at 11:08
JimmyC379

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Location: Brisbane

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Post #13
Might get it checked this week but it seems fine.
Posted 21st Jul 2012 at 11:47
aaron6

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Post #14
Yeah, stiffen the back a touch, I wonder if a hybrid may be too harsh for road use but if.its used mostly on track then fair enough. I have a 25mm arb and thats good. Smile
Are your wishbone bushes okay? What tires do you run? I had t1r's for example and my car felt w**k. Put pe2's on and it transformed it. Also, I had my car lowered 40mm all round, then had the back raised a tad to -30mm and that sharpened it up nicely. Smile

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See the sheer power and might of the lesser known burrowing owl.



Posted 21st Jul 2012 at 17:43
miles

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Post #15
I always say a 30mm rear ARB is fine even for road use, No issue's with them along with solid mounts as along with up-rated front bush's it makes the car turn allot sharper as you don;t have to wait for the rubber to react.

Front wise you can machine the hubs for Camber but on std dia springs you cannot use top mounts

________________________________________

306 Rallye Sptint/Race Car, 205 CTI 1.9 8v to name a few

Road, Track and Race/Rally car preparation to your personal requirements,
Full Workshop & Diagnostic Facilities
New and Second parts, from Plugs to Turbo's
We now also carry out Routine Servicing
www.pugracing.com

& FB Page, https://www.facebook.com/PugRacing

Ebay; http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Pug-Racing-Shop

2012/2013/2014/2019 Class Winners at Gurston Down Speed Hillclimb & Joint overall, Class record too along the way,
Posted 21st Jul 2012 at 18:17
JimmyC379

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Location: Brisbane

Registered: 16 Dec 2011

Posts: 32

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Post #16
Cool Guys. I have sent you a message on e-bay Miles about the 30mm ARB. I will do that first and see how we go. I was thinking can I just use a drill bit to make the beam big enough for the 30mm or what else is involved.
Posted 22nd Jul 2012 at 11:32
aaron6

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Post #17
I believe you need 205 tube pins.

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Posted 22nd Jul 2012 at 14:16
jord294

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Post #18

the last few times i've bought trailing arm shafts in bulk, they have been large enough to accommodate a 30mm arb

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Posted 22nd Jul 2012 at 14:19
JimmyC379

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Location: Brisbane

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Post #19
Cool does not sound hard at all - I thought fitting a 30mm was a hard job - cheers guys.
Posted 22nd Jul 2012 at 14:38
JimmyC379

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Location: Brisbane

Registered: 16 Dec 2011

Posts: 32

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Post #20
I slackened off the top strut brace before my latest outing on the track. Seemed to reduce the understeering big time and was quicker than the Fiat 500 this time.
Posted 30th Jul 2012 at 13:47
phillipm

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Location: Rotherham

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Post #21
Which way is it tensioned?

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Posted 30th Jul 2012 at 14:09
JimmyC379

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Location: Brisbane

Registered: 16 Dec 2011

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Post #22
I had it pushing towards the outside of the towers not really tight but fairly tight. Now I have it backed of to neutral tension - non really on the towers a all. That has made huge difference.
Posted 30th Jul 2012 at 14:13
phillipm

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Post #23
Yeah, should be in tension really - pulling inwards on the strut tops, but not a lot.

________________________________________

- Bespoke rollcages/additions/adjustments. Half cages right up to complete custom spaceframes - MSA/FIA spec, CDS, ROPT, T45, etc - PM me
Email me!
Custom-made polybushes available - need an odd size or fitment? - anything from batch work to one-off pieces.
Posted 30th Jul 2012 at 14:14
JimmyC379

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Location: Brisbane

Registered: 16 Dec 2011

Posts: 32

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Post #24
I will give that one ago next time. Should have the koni's soon can't wait to see how they go.
Posted 30th Jul 2012 at 14:19
miles

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Location: Ringwood

Registered: 28 Dec 2002

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Post #25
ARB's drop Ash a PM,

________________________________________

306 Rallye Sptint/Race Car, 205 CTI 1.9 8v to name a few

Road, Track and Race/Rally car preparation to your personal requirements,
Full Workshop & Diagnostic Facilities
New and Second parts, from Plugs to Turbo's
We now also carry out Routine Servicing
www.pugracing.com

& FB Page, https://www.facebook.com/PugRacing

Ebay; http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Pug-Racing-Shop

2012/2013/2014/2019 Class Winners at Gurston Down Speed Hillclimb & Joint overall, Class record too along the way,
Posted 31st Jul 2012 at 23:07

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