just thinking about N/A engine mods - Engines Forum - Peugeot 306 GTi-6 & Rallye Owners Club

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Subject: just thinking about N/A engine mods

gti-dan

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Location: Yorkshire

Registered: 03 Jan 2010

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Post #1

This weekend i have been reading a few of the engine threads and has got me thinking about how i'd like to modify my engine. First i was looking at some bike carbs / throttle bodies, then i though i might aswell get cams at the same time but I have been reading about the clearance issues.

So how are people getting 200 - 250 ?

Just out of interest how much do you think it'd set you back for a moderately higher compression, bored out / stroked, cammed engine on throttle bodies?!?!?!? and what sort of output do you think it'd give?

Posted 28th Feb 2010 at 01:46

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welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

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Post #2

stock head crank and block then add;

Aftermarket pistons, rods and cams, throttle bodies and a decent length inlet manifold, most likely need a custom exhaust manifold to suit if you want to take it much over 230 odd apparently, the higher you need to rev it the more likely you'll need to convert to solid tappets.

you can quite easily gain some CC and a fair amount of torque over the above by using an 88 or 92mm stroke crank, wont add a great deal to the cost of the pistons and rods, you can go milder on the cams if you take this route, I know DrSarty on the 205gtidrivers forum is at 230-240bhp and 190 odd lbft with a standard Mi16 exhaust cam and a PeterT stage 1 inlet cam, on a 2.2 bottom end.

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Posted 28th Feb 2010 at 01:59

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gti-dan

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Post #3

i like the sound of that spec. It will be used for trackdays and sprints but will be road legal but not a daily driver. Would that engine be fairly reliable? not after some highly tuned finely balanced thing. Do you know anywhere that sells the sort of pistons and rods and crank id need - just to eye up prices.

cheers

Posted 28th Feb 2010 at 02:49

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welshpug!

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Post #4

should be as reliable as the original engines if its put together well, you need to speak to an engine builder for the next bits unless youre planning to build it yourself, either way they can advise waht's the route to take.

QEP can supply a lot of the parts, Sandy Brown and Mark Shillaber can build and possibly spec and supply if needed, speak to them and see what they say.

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Posted 28th Feb 2010 at 03:00

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mxcrazy

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Post #5

You'll spend a lot more building a 230+ bhp N/A motor than you would buying a supercharger kit by the way.

These are some guesstimate prices for you, 88mm by 88mm, (stock is 86 x 86)

Pistons

Posted 28th Feb 2010 at 03:07

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welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

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Post #6

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Posted 28th Feb 2010 at 03:23

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mxcrazy

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Post #7

welshpug! wrote:

Posted 28th Feb 2010 at 17:40

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chris with a pug

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Post #8

Rich_w can supply pistons and rods, always worth an ask for price comparisons

Posted 28th Feb 2010 at 17:43

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gti-dan

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Post #9

mxcrazy wrote:

You'll spend a lot more building a 230+ bhp N/A motor than you would buying a supercharger kit by the way.

These are some guesstimate prices for you, 88mm by 88mm, (stock is 86 x 86)

Pistons

Posted 28th Feb 2010 at 21:46

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mxcrazy

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Post #10

gti-dan wrote:

mxcrazy wrote:

You'll spend a lot more building a 230+ bhp N/A motor than you would buying a supercharger kit by the way.

These are some guesstimate prices for you, 88mm by 88mm, (stock is 86 x 86)

Pistons

Posted 28th Feb 2010 at 23:59

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chris with a pug

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Post #11

The engine builder for longmans had 280BHP on standard valves so there no need really to make them bigger.

Posted 1st Mar 2010 at 01:50

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joevts

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Post #12

what does the RS head work like on an XU7 bottom end? i know that's going the opposite way to what you're all talking about, but i like to be different Razz

what are the compression ratios and valve/piston clearances like compared to either of the standard engines?

basically, before you start to criticize, my aim is not to get big power, but just to create a half decent 16v engine on a budget. i am looking at spending about as much on the whole thing as you might think a reasonable price for a set of pistons LOL

the reason for the XU7 is that i can get hold of a whole engine for not a lot of dosh, and also with the shorter stroke i think it will be a lot less prone to shit a rod out of the sump, which is what happened to the engine the RS head came off Roll eyes

Posted 1st Mar 2010 at 23:31

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welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

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Post #13

it'll bolt straight on, I think Craig28 has done one on the 205gtidrivers forum.

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Posted 2nd Mar 2010 at 00:24

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joevts

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Post #14

what about timing belt, head gasket... any other things that go 'between' the head and block if you know what i mean?

i am a complete novice and you know your stuff so i hope you don't mind the constant barrage of seemingly simple questions that will be coming your way over the next few months

Posted 2nd Mar 2010 at 00:33

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dented_vts

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Post #15

chris with a pug wrote:

The engine builder for longmans had 280BHP on standard valves so there no need really to make them bigger.

Unlikely -do the maths and work out how much torque you would need at 9k to make that much power

Posted 2nd Mar 2010 at 02:29

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welshpug!

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Post #16

why is that unlikely? a reputable engine builder stated so, one with proven results.

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Posted 2nd Mar 2010 at 03:21

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daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

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Post #17

dented_vts wrote:

chris with a pug wrote:

The engine builder for longmans had 280BHP on standard valves so there no need really to make them bigger.

Unlikely -do the maths and work out how much torque you would need at 9k to make that much power

Well they can DEFINITELY make 275 on standard valve sizes as thats what all the BTCC ones were making, so if he says they found an extra 5 HP somewhere I'm not about to call him a liar. As a point of note, he menioned they did experiment with larger valves (1mm larger) and an 8 injector setup, and they got close on to 300 HP, however lap times actuall went up as drivability suffered as power delivery was adversely affected, power is nothing without control aparently Wink

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Posted 3rd Mar 2010 at 03:42

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phillipm

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Post #18

dented_vts wrote:

chris with a pug wrote:

The engine builder for longmans had 280BHP on standard valves so there no need really to make them bigger.

Unlikely -do the maths and work out how much torque you would need at 9k to make that much power

115% VE at the peak torque spread isn't too unreasonable for an out and out race engine.

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Posted 3rd Mar 2010 at 03:45

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daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

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Post #19

phillipm wrote:

dented_vts wrote:

chris with a pug wrote:

The engine builder for longmans had 280BHP on standard valves so there no need really to make them bigger.

Unlikely -do the maths and work out how much torque you would need at 9k to make that much power

115% VE at the peak torque spread isn't too unreasonable for an out and out race engine.

Can you explain that calculation in Laymans terms for the ignorant (Me) amongst us please?

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Posted 3rd Mar 2010 at 03:51

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mxcrazy

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Post #20

clicky

Posted 3rd Mar 2010 at 03:54

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phillipm

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Post #21

^^Saved me typing!

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Posted 3rd Mar 2010 at 03:58

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darkgti6

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Post #22

dented_vts wrote:

chris with a pug wrote:

The engine builder for longmans had 280BHP on standard valves so there no need really to make them bigger.

Unlikely -do the maths and work out how much torque you would need at 9k to make that much power

Well here we have a prime example of your wrongness LOL

275bhp 2.016v engine

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Posted 3rd Mar 2010 at 04:02

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Post #23

Rather spend the money on fitting a turbo engine, or supercharging!.

The only mod I'm tempted to do at the minute is ITB's on a budget, and that's purely for the sound! No way should you modifying these engines for extra N/A power, unless you're fine with spending a lot of dollar IMO.

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Posted 3rd Mar 2010 at 04:09

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daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

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Post #24

ry wrote:

Rather spend the money on fitting a turbo engine, or supercharging!.quote]

Me too Whistle

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Posted 3rd Mar 2010 at 16:46

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welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

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Registered: 27 Mar 2007

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Post #25

meh, every other fecker has done that, BAAAAH Razz

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Posted 3rd Mar 2010 at 16:48

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