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Just Drive It
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Author | Subject: AP Racing Budget Brake Project |
rallyestyle
Seasoned Pro Location: London Registered: 23 Jul 2003 Posts: 14,990 Status: Offline |
Post #26
315mm would be very impressive under 15's Every mm counts ________________________________________ Just Drive It |
Posted 8th Sep 2008 at 17:36
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Welly
Forum Admin Location: Brizzle Registered: 11 Jan 2004 Posts: 21,796 Status: Offline |
Post #27
Well done mate. If you can send me the piston sizes i'll work out the breaking force for you. Give you a rough idea anyway. ________________________________________ Life is a lie. The only certainty of which is death. Go live and enjoy yourself. The clock is tickingVrs power!! |
Posted 8th Sep 2008 at 19:12
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rallyestyle
Seasoned Pro Location: London Registered: 23 Jul 2003 Posts: 14,990 Status: Offline |
Post #28
Welly wrote: Well done mate. If you can send me the piston sizes i'll work out the breaking force for you. Give you a rough idea anyway. Cheers Welly that would be cool as i have no idea Leading 38.10mm and Trailing 41.3mm (1.5" & 1.625") Ap Site says the piston area is 49.5 although i presume thatas mm squared Just hope it goes together smoothly on the car now ________________________________________ Just Drive It |
Posted 8th Sep 2008 at 19:55
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phillipm
Seasoned Pro Location: Rotherham Registered: 15 Oct 2006 Posts: 20,607 Status: Offline |
Post #29
So they should have approximately 96% of the braking power of the gti6 calipers when considering piston sizes alone.Of course, the AP caliper is a lot stiffer so outright braking power should be much the same (bar the effect of the bigger discs), along with less pedal travel. ________________________________________ - Bespoke rollcages/additions/adjustments. Half cages right up to complete custom spaceframes - MSA/FIA spec, CDS, ROPT, T45, etc - PM meEmail me! Custom-made polybushes available - need an odd size or fitment? - anything from batch work to one-off pieces. |
Posted 8th Sep 2008 at 19:35
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rallyestyle
Seasoned Pro Location: London Registered: 23 Jul 2003 Posts: 14,990 Status: Offline |
Post #30
Yeah just had a look on the web Phil and if calcs are right it's 97.5% of the braking power so you were nearly there with your approximation After driving my mates Caterham at the weekend with an AP setup im looking forward to the reduced pedal travel ________________________________________ Just Drive It |
Posted 8th Sep 2008 at 20:15
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phillipm
Seasoned Pro Location: Rotherham Registered: 15 Oct 2006 Posts: 20,607 Status: Offline |
Post #31
I get 96.83% working it out? ________________________________________ - Bespoke rollcages/additions/adjustments. Half cages right up to complete custom spaceframes - MSA/FIA spec, CDS, ROPT, T45, etc - PM meEmail me! Custom-made polybushes available - need an odd size or fitment? - anything from batch work to one-off pieces. |
Posted 8th Sep 2008 at 20:32
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rallyestyle
Seasoned Pro Location: London Registered: 23 Jul 2003 Posts: 14,990 Status: Offline |
Post #32
So it's the combined piston area for one side right? I may have that wrong That's 1.77" + 2.06" = 3.83" squareNormal is 3.93 i think 1% of 3.93 = 0.0393 3.83/0.0393 = 97.5 (1dp) I dont really have a clue though mate so your probably right ________________________________________ Just Drive It |
Posted 8th Sep 2008 at 20:55
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phillipm
Seasoned Pro Location: Rotherham Registered: 15 Oct 2006 Posts: 20,607 Status: Offline |
Post #33
Well, I did it from the mm dimensions so there may be some lost in translation :Quick conversion for standard pistons gives me 3.97 square inches. ________________________________________ - Bespoke rollcages/additions/adjustments. Half cages right up to complete custom spaceframes - MSA/FIA spec, CDS, ROPT, T45, etc - PM meEmail me! Custom-made polybushes available - need an odd size or fitment? - anything from batch work to one-off pieces. |
Posted 8th Sep 2008 at 20:59
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rallyestyle
Seasoned Pro Location: London Registered: 23 Jul 2003 Posts: 14,990 Status: Offline |
Post #34
phillipm wrote: Well, I did it from the mm dimensions so there may be some lost in translation : Quick conversion for standard pistons gives me 3.97 square inches. Could be I updated the post a bit above with the measurements in inches too, they were on the AP Racing diagram but at the time i thought mm was more relevant ________________________________________ Just Drive It |
Posted 8th Sep 2008 at 21:30
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rallyestyle
Seasoned Pro Location: London Registered: 23 Jul 2003 Posts: 14,990 Status: Offline |
Post #35
*Small Update*The brake discs and brake fluid have arrived so they are all set for fitting now With the help of Chris (matoski) i went for the OE Brembo 406 Coupe discs and i must say quality wise they definitly look the business, thanks once again Chris For the brake fluid i have a litre of Motul RBF 600, this fluid is a DOT4 fluid with excellent wet and dry boiling temps that rival and in some cases exceed various DOT 5.1 fluid along with the advantage of not needing to be changed so often. I plan to get everything on the car over the weekend so i will update with some pics once i have it done ________________________________________ Just Drive It |
Posted 16th Sep 2008 at 20:12
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matsoki
Seasoned Pro Location: In the garage..... Registered: 08 Oct 2007 Posts: 1,192 Status: Offline |
Post #36
No problem Tom, gald to help.Can't wait to see the pics all built up. Am I reading the thread right, you have a less clamp force than std calipers? But you should have gains from the bigger pad area, and disc dia? But with more control because of the calipers? ________________________________________ Built on 25th November 1998... That was a Wednesday..... Thank God it wasn't a Friday!RIP - Pete Sims |
Posted 16th Sep 2008 at 20:53
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rallyestyle
Seasoned Pro Location: London Registered: 23 Jul 2003 Posts: 14,990 Status: Offline |
Post #37
matsoki wrote: No problem Tom, gald to help. Can't wait to see the pics all built up. Am I reading the thread right, you have a less clamp force than std calipers? But you should have gains from the bigger pad area, and disc dia? But with more control because of the calipers? Something like that mate i think yeah Im not really sure of the math but the calipers are the ones supplied by AP Racing for their 306 Road/Rally kits so they will be up to scratch Guess i will be able to compare come monday ________________________________________ Just Drive It |
Posted 16th Sep 2008 at 21:01
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phillipm
Seasoned Pro Location: Rotherham Registered: 15 Oct 2006 Posts: 20,607 Status: Offline |
Post #38
matsoki wrote: Am I reading the thread right, you have a less clamp force than std calipers? Yep, but that's not a problem, it's only a function of master cylinder area vs piston area's anyway. You can get more clamp pressure by putting a smaller master cylinder on a standard setup. He should have more leverage from the discs, less caliper deflection which will give a less pedal travel and more consistant braking. The larger pad area will only really act as a larger heat sink for high speed braking, to help a little with pad temperatures, and it will reduce pad wear, the actual friction isn't affected much by pad area. They'll wear more evenly too, and get less pad knock off, which'll reduce the pedal travel some more. They'll certainly feel far better just from that. Which means you can go down on the master cylinder size if you want more power but with the same pedal travel. ________________________________________ - Bespoke rollcages/additions/adjustments. Half cages right up to complete custom spaceframes - MSA/FIA spec, CDS, ROPT, T45, etc - PM meEmail me! Custom-made polybushes available - need an odd size or fitment? - anything from batch work to one-off pieces. |
Posted 16th Sep 2008 at 22:22
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rallyestyle
Seasoned Pro Location: London Registered: 23 Jul 2003 Posts: 14,990 Status: Offline |
Post #39
phillipm wrote: matsoki wrote: Am I reading the thread right, you have a less clamp force than std calipers? Yep, but that's not a problem, it's only a function of master cylinder area vs piston area's anyway. You can get more clamp pressure by putting a smaller master cylinder on a standard setup. He should have more leverage from the discs, less caliper deflection which will give a less pedal travel and more consistant braking. The larger pad area will only really act as a larger heat sink for high speed braking, to help a little with pad temperatures, and it will reduce pad wear, the actual friction isn't affected much by pad area. They'll wear more evenly too, and get less pad knock off, which'll reduce the pedal travel some more. They'll certainly feel far better just from that. Which means you can go down on the master cylinder size if you want more power but with the same pedal travel. Thanks Phil, good to know that info for the future ________________________________________ Just Drive It |
Posted 17th Sep 2008 at 14:10
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phillipm
Seasoned Pro Location: Rotherham Registered: 15 Oct 2006 Posts: 20,607 Status: Offline |
Post #40
Well, we'll find out shortly by the sound of it ________________________________________ - Bespoke rollcages/additions/adjustments. Half cages right up to complete custom spaceframes - MSA/FIA spec, CDS, ROPT, T45, etc - PM meEmail me! Custom-made polybushes available - need an odd size or fitment? - anything from batch work to one-off pieces. |
Posted 17th Sep 2008 at 15:59
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mabgti
NV motors Location: Bham tunnel @7400rpm Registered: 28 Aug 2003 Posts: 9,127 Status: Offline |
Post #41
hows this going now?test fitted yet? squeel? Just wanted to know if the crossover pipes are original? ________________________________________ Team Supercharged Gti-6NV Motorsport Automotive Performance Tuning 0121 448 7515 ECU Remapping/ DPF removal VAG/BMW Diag and Option Coding Peugeot Planet ECU coding/transponder programming etc www.nvmotorsport.com Facebook Page Project S6 |
Posted 22nd Sep 2008 at 22:13
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puglover
Banned! Location: Far out there Registered: 08 Jun 2006 Posts: 6,095 Status: Offline |
Post #42
mabgti wrote: hows this going now? test fitted yet? squeel? optimism |
Posted 22nd Sep 2008 at 23:09
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mabgti
NV motors Location: Bham tunnel @7400rpm Registered: 28 Aug 2003 Posts: 9,127 Status: Offline |
Post #43
slightly inquisitive...________________________________________ Team Supercharged Gti-6NV Motorsport Automotive Performance Tuning 0121 448 7515 ECU Remapping/ DPF removal VAG/BMW Diag and Option Coding Peugeot Planet ECU coding/transponder programming etc www.nvmotorsport.com Facebook Page Project S6 |
Posted 22nd Sep 2008 at 23:17
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rallyestyle
Seasoned Pro Location: London Registered: 23 Jul 2003 Posts: 14,990 Status: Offline |
Post #44
On the phone here so will update tomorrow at work but yep they are fitted (mighty close though) and so far zero squeal although i have only tootled around until i can bed them in properly Check back for an update tomorrow, they look sweet My thumb hurts now ________________________________________ Just Drive It |
Posted 23rd Sep 2008 at 00:11
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fletch
Track Head Location: The nearest Shell garage Registered: 12 Jun 2004 Posts: 12,273 Status: Offline |
Post #45
Happy Birthday Tom |
Posted 23rd Sep 2008 at 00:57
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chet
LongtimeLurker Location: London [NW] Registered: 31 May 2006 Posts: 1,767 Status: Offline |
Post #46
Happy Birthday mate, have a good one Look forward to the pics ________________________________________ ___=[ 306 RALLYE ]=__Rallye Pics///R.I.P: T499 HFC///Farewell: T153 JCP <== ==> Welcome: S2000 |
Posted 23rd Sep 2008 at 01:03
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stu
Seasoned Pro Location: Milton Keynes Registered: 22 Aug 2006 Posts: 5,525 Status: Offline |
Post #47
Hope you have a good one Tom.Look forward to the update. |
Posted 23rd Sep 2008 at 01:06
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rallyestyle
Seasoned Pro Location: London Registered: 23 Jul 2003 Posts: 14,990 Status: Offline |
Post #48
Cheers guys, thought i would take the day off, cant stand working on my Birthday Anyhow i have some pictures, sadly i only realised this morning that in my entusiasm to get them on and take the car for a spin i forgot to take some of them with the wheels on Anyhow i will do that tonight Fitting was not that hard, i had some issues with a siezed nut on one of the brake lines but for some reason this decided to loosen itself over night to my surprise I made a weekend of it and did the rears too so it was sort of a complete brake overhaul Anyhow here are some pics of the badboys all attached, i got funky with some yellow paint too Now one caliper wasnt bleeding very quickly so i think it may have issues as it wasnt functioning that well on my test drive I believe there may be a blockage going into the caliper somewhere but i will have to wait till the weekend before i can get a look at that For now i have left the serious bedding in until i can get it fixed, once thats done i can start giving some decent feedback On another note while doing the fitting i realised the discs could probably go to 315mm quite easily on the current bracket and if i was to offset the whole lot like in Ash's kit i reckon i could go 330mm or perhaps slightly bigger, there is buckets of room further back although as Ash suggested i believe the balljoint would be a deciding factor as to how far back any disc could go Watch out for the pics with wheels tomorrow ________________________________________ Just Drive It |
Posted 23rd Sep 2008 at 14:54
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matsoki
Seasoned Pro Location: In the garage..... Registered: 08 Oct 2007 Posts: 1,192 Status: Offline |
Post #49
Looks very tidy....... The new black coating on the brembo dics look good too.... Get them wheels on. ________________________________________ Built on 25th November 1998... That was a Wednesday..... Thank God it wasn't a Friday!RIP - Pete Sims |
Posted 23rd Sep 2008 at 15:52
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russbez
Seasoned Pro Location: Inverness-Shire Registered: 19 Dec 2005 Posts: 7,459 Status: Offline |
Post #50
where is that pop corn smiley when you need itlooking very tidy ________________________________________ TEAM HIGH BOOST SUPERCHARGED RALLYEMy Rallye project thread |
Posted 23rd Sep 2008 at 18:28
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