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Author Subject: Maxi Rallying
martinj

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Location: Berkshire

Registered: 12 Feb 2007

Posts: 322

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Post #1
Hi,

Have gone for putting the latest update into the 'projects' as the car is a constant project - sometimes that is a good thing!

Since the last posting, the car has been through its MOT having had the roller bearing lower bushes fitted to the new dimma wide track arms that I picked up on a holiday in Europe last year (seemed sensible to have some spares as they are not quickly avialable if I have a problem on event, or between). The arms were also treated to new ball joints, and new track rod ends were fitted for good measure.

I opted to drill and tap the rear of the arms and then fitted them with a threaded rod that allow them to be secured in the p-bush, rather than welding the sleave to the bottom arm. They fitted well, with a bit of a fiddle to get everything aligned when re-fitting the arm with the washers in the kit. The front of the car now has now rubber bushing, with the top mounts being a bearing aswell - the rear will have the last of the rubber removed when the new axle goes in with its new solid front mounts, the rear axle mounts have been alloy block type since its conversion to a rally car.

With it MOT all sorted, there was a bit of rest available ahead of the rally this weekend - just time to get a bad cold, the ideal personal preperation!


Azimghur Stages - 12th July

This rally takes place at a naval airfield near Colerne, using parts of the main runway with the majority of the stage running over the road network and taxi ways around the airfield. This year we used some new areas of the venue which were really good quality with amazing grip levels.

The car went through the noise test at 96db at 4500rpm, max allowed is 100db, and then passed scruitineering without any comment.

With the lack of finishes at the previous rallies, we had been seeded at 73, but all we were concerned with was getting some miles on the car, and an all important finish - it is amazing how demoralising it can get when you have a few non finishes.

There was a very impressive field of cars, with the event sponsor entering two Aston Martins, converted GT racers for rallying, they looked great but seemed a bit too quite to be right.

The weather was a bit changable through the day but we stuck with the pirelli moulded slicks all day as the ground temperature was high and the showers that fell did not leave the ground wet for long.

First stage was a bit slow, feeling for the grip levels on a drying stage, and just getting back into how the car felt, second lap of the first stage saw us push a bit harder and everything seemed to working just fine - what a relief.

We then set about over the next seven stages working up the order, both on the overall stage leader board, and our road position. With our seeding, we were catching atleast one car per stage, and on some stages we also over took the car ahead of that which had entered the stage a full minute before us.

My car has a pretty basic engine and gearbox in it, and as such in a straight line drag doesn't pull away from many things out there, but when we were getting into the braking areas for the corners and chicanes, we were just leaving the other cars behind - the braks on the car are just amazing and a high speed venue like Colerne really makes that show. The other really good thing with the venue is some of the very high speed corners that they have, we were pulling 100mph through some of the open 90 degree corners and again were just killing the oposition on these areas of the stages. The Kaaz diff was doing its thing through these corners and it is going to take some getting used to, as it allows you to take the corners so much faster once it starts to ramp, found myself wishing for more power in the corners.....

During the lunch service period I decided to do a quick spanner check on the front suspension to check that everything was still tight....off shears the 13mm P bush bolt! A quick extraction of the bottom arm, a bit of finger crossing, and the mole grips attached to the bur that was just poking out of the p-bush body and it un-wound. I was pleased to put it mildly - a quick root in the selection of bolts we carry in the van, and both sides peugeot bolts were swapped for 12.9 cap head bolts and everything was put back together - for anyone out there who is fitting new bushes, standard or Rich's ones, please give serious consideration to useing a better spec of bolt, I was amazed at how poor the quality was of the peugeots ones, the other side's one was also stretched - they are pennies from Screwfix in 12.9 strength.

The rest of the day was a repeat of the morning, fuel, checks and overtaking.

At the end of the event, we had climbed from our starting position of 73, to 34th overall, and I think it was 11th in class (there were 30 cars in our class). I was just happy to have finished without any major issues.



The New Rear Axle

I met with the guy who has been engineering the new axle for my car at the event, and I will put a new thread up when I have had a chance to take some pictures.

It has spacers between the trailing arms and the back of the hub, with new longer stub pins running through. It all looks very good, and I just need to set up the ride height and get it on the car to test that it all hangs together!

It was really good to have broken the duck with the car, and was nice to receive loads of complements about the car, it seems to liked by loads of the other rally crews out there, I even had a crew say how nice looked on stage when we passed them!


Martin

________________________________________

- Maxi rear axle hub spacers +53mm per side
- Maxi front steering rack extensions +40mm per side
Posted 14th Jul 2008 at 04:09
laurentgarnier

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Location: Leicester here i come!Soon!!!

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Post #2
Great write up MartinWink. What power are you running with?

________________________________________

The Leveller
Team China™


Laurent Garnier "The Man With The Red Face"
Posted 14th Jul 2008 at 04:16
midlife

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Location: Colne, Lancashire

Registered: 13 Mar 2006

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Post #3
Hi Martin, would there be any chance of you posting a few pics of the wide track bottom arms, Ive been toying with the idea of going "Maxi" for a while its just the front suspension thats been putting me off a little.
Cheers

Cool

________________________________________

Get used to seeing the yellow one !!!MehMehMehMehMeh
Team 330™Cool
Team "no front end or engine"
Team "LIMITED EDITION" I live for the 306 stickerSmug
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Posted 14th Jul 2008 at 04:27
martinj

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Location: Berkshire

Registered: 12 Feb 2007

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Post #4
Hi Tony,

The car's engine is standard, as far as I am aware but I have not had it appart since I have owned to be sure on that. The only things it does have is a cone filter in the inner wing area behind the n/s headlight, and a custom built stainless exhaust with a race cat.

Hi Wayne,

I will take some pictures of the front arms when I do the pictures of the rear beam. They look the same, design wise, but are effectively a stretched version of the design to give the wider track. The wide arms use the same ball joints and bushings as a standard arm. I have some standard arms that I will dig out to show you a side by side comparason in one of the pictures.

All of the front suspension components are still readily available from dimma in belgium, and they really helpful if you ever wanted to go down that route.

Martin

________________________________________

- Maxi rear axle hub spacers +53mm per side
- Maxi front steering rack extensions +40mm per side
Posted 14th Jul 2008 at 23:49
pete_rallye

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Location: Yorkshire

Registered: 12 Dec 2002

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Post #5
The old peugeot sport bottom arms I had were just 2 pieces of tubular steel welded together with some threaded bits in to accept spherical bearings, fairly straightforward to say they were

________________________________________

Oulton Park in a BTCC 306 vid 1
Oulton Park in a BTCC 306 vid 2
Lap of the 'ring
Posted 15th Jul 2008 at 00:05
martinj

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Location: Berkshire

Registered: 12 Feb 2007

Posts: 322

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Post #6
The group A style bottom arms could be used as a basis, with slightly longer arms. The subframe's rear mount needs to be adapted to take the rose joint by welding in some extra plates - not the end of the world but will take some time to sort out.

With some cds thick wall tubing and a good quality of welding it wouldn't be a problem to go that route, there are just quite a few bits of fabrication to do at the back mount of the subframe, and then making up an adaptor for the base of the hub to pick up from the rose joint.

A site that would be useful to have a look at for ideas is http://www.auto.mk6.fr and then look at 'Triangles' in the menu, this is the french phrase / word for front bottom arms.

The rear axle options seem to range from large offset wheels, wheel spacers or hub spacers for the axle. The genuine rear axles are way too expensive, you would probably pay more for a rear maxi axle than a very nice spec complete road / clubman rally maxi car. I have been running 53mm spacers on the rear, with et16 7inch wheels for the last four events without any issues, and collected a newly engineered axle at the last event with the spacers moved to the area between the arm and the back of the hub. If the 306 maxi was being used as a road car, then I would suggest starting with spacers and seeing how it goes, if mine have coped with the loads from tarmac rallying I can't see road work will cause them any big problem, and they do not cause any issues that I have become aware of in the time mine have been fitted.

I currently run a small spacer on the front of my car as I chose to run 7inch wheels rather than 8inch wheels - they are a better size for the tyres we run in the class we are in for rallying, again for road work, if you run an 8inch wheel with the same et, the arch will be pretty full.

Hope some of that is useful,

Martin

________________________________________

- Maxi rear axle hub spacers +53mm per side
- Maxi front steering rack extensions +40mm per side
Posted 15th Jul 2008 at 04:12
midlife

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Location: Colne, Lancashire

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Post #7
Cheers Martin, I'll look forward to seeing the picsThumbs up

Cool

________________________________________

Get used to seeing the yellow one !!!MehMehMehMehMeh
Team 330™Cool
Team "no front end or engine"
Team "LIMITED EDITION" I live for the 306 stickerSmug
Team 0-60 in 6.44 & standing qtr in 14.808 @ 94.55mph all with std engineSmug
203bhp Corolla T-Sport daily driver stealthier than Kwai Chang Caine
Posted 15th Jul 2008 at 06:59
avirally

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Location: South east

Registered: 24 Jun 2007

Posts: 132

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Post #8
Hi Martin thanks for the update looking forward for some pictures i have taken off the 18 alloys and i am running 17 i feel that there is more response with the car and the handling is better but it might just be me Wink

________________________________________

1995 306 maxi the best fwd car ever build
Posted 15th Jul 2008 at 15:39
midlife

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Location: Colne, Lancashire

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Post #9
Martin, I take it you have roughly done this with your rear beam then?





Cool

________________________________________

Get used to seeing the yellow one !!!MehMehMehMehMeh
Team 330™Cool
Team "no front end or engine"
Team "LIMITED EDITION" I live for the 306 stickerSmug
Team 0-60 in 6.44 & standing qtr in 14.808 @ 94.55mph all with std engineSmug
203bhp Corolla T-Sport daily driver stealthier than Kwai Chang Caine
Posted 17th Jul 2008 at 02:05
welshpug!

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Location: Bigend, Wales.

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Post #10
hehe, KRS bits those, actually a 205/309 beam in the pics, though the the same kit fits the 306.

a proper maxi beam looks rather more substantial than that but I cant find any pictures

________________________________________

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Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 17th Jul 2008 at 02:50
24seven

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Post #11
Weren't genuine maxi beams something silly like

________________________________________

Ph1 306 GTi 6 | RX8 231 S1 | YBR 125 Cafe Racer | MT-03 660
Posted 17th Jul 2008 at 18:57
dan_s16

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Post #12
Pretty sure I've got a pic of a proper maxi beam somewhere, i'll see if I can find it.

Edit: I know i've got one some where but i can't find.

________________________________________

When I've got time I forget what I wanted to do, and when I remember what I wanted to do, I have no time!
Posted 17th Jul 2008 at 21:20
laurentgarnier

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Location: Leicester here i come!Soon!!!

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Post #13
24seven wrote:
Weren't genuine maxi beams something silly like

________________________________________

The Leveller
Team China™


Laurent Garnier "The Man With The Red Face"
Posted 18th Jul 2008 at 00:00
martinj

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Location: Berkshire

Registered: 12 Feb 2007

Posts: 322

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Post #14
Hi,

As promised, some pictures of the new rear beam with its 53mm hub spacing wider track per side, and some shots of the front arms showing the +40mm over a standard arm.

I have also included a shot of the solid rear beam mounts for the new beam, and the extensions for the steering arms.

Martin

martinj has attached the following image:

________________________________________

- Maxi rear axle hub spacers +53mm per side
- Maxi front steering rack extensions +40mm per side
Posted 21st Jul 2008 at 01:31
martinj

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Location: Berkshire

Registered: 12 Feb 2007

Posts: 322

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Post #15
rear beam

martinj has attached the following image:

________________________________________

- Maxi rear axle hub spacers +53mm per side
- Maxi front steering rack extensions +40mm per side
Posted 21st Jul 2008 at 01:32
martinj

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Location: Berkshire

Registered: 12 Feb 2007

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Post #16
wide and standard arm laid on top of one another

martinj has attached the following image:

________________________________________

- Maxi rear axle hub spacers +53mm per side
- Maxi front steering rack extensions +40mm per side
Posted 21st Jul 2008 at 01:33
martinj

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Location: Berkshire

Registered: 12 Feb 2007

Posts: 322

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Post #17
+40mm over standard arm

martinj has attached the following image:

________________________________________

- Maxi rear axle hub spacers +53mm per side
- Maxi front steering rack extensions +40mm per side
Posted 21st Jul 2008 at 01:33
martinj

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Location: Berkshire

Registered: 12 Feb 2007

Posts: 322

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Post #18
dimma arm infront of standard arm - same design just that bit wider

martinj has attached the following image:

________________________________________

- Maxi rear axle hub spacers +53mm per side
- Maxi front steering rack extensions +40mm per side
Posted 21st Jul 2008 at 01:34
martinj

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Location: Berkshire

Registered: 12 Feb 2007

Posts: 322

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Post #19
solid rear beam mounts ready to go on the new beam, and the picture has the dimma rack extension pieces in it.

The only other part of the wide track kit that isn't in any of the shots is the longer front drive shafts.

martinj has attached the following image:

________________________________________

- Maxi rear axle hub spacers +53mm per side
- Maxi front steering rack extensions +40mm per side
Posted 21st Jul 2008 at 01:36
gtisid

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Location: chelmsford

Registered: 22 Mar 2003

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Post #20
do love this car, what tyres and rims are you using for gravel , how does it handle when you lift it up to get gravel tyres under there?

________________________________________

pugless
Phase 1 GTI 6 1996-1997
Subaru Impreza GB270 2007-2008
rare spiderman comics
same day international courier
Posted 26th Jul 2008 at 04:07
zac

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Post #21
Great read. Eagerly await the pictures. Cool

________________________________________

Hit the limiter in 6th gear at 169mph (GPS - TomTom on the German autobahn). Still pulling like a train too. Cheers

- Phase 3 GTi-6 (409hp 'charged weekend toy)
- Phase 2.5 Rallye (daily driver)

R.I.P Pete Sims
Posted 26th Jul 2008 at 05:45
martinj

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Location: Berkshire

Registered: 12 Feb 2007

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Post #22
Hi gtisid,

The car is a tarmac only car. It only runs on 17inch speedlines for tarmac.

Martin

________________________________________

- Maxi rear axle hub spacers +53mm per side
- Maxi front steering rack extensions +40mm per side
Posted 28th Jul 2008 at 00:30
puglover Banned!

Location: Far out there

Registered: 08 Jun 2006

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Post #23
martin ive sent you a pm about your car, i need your help sourcing some parts. Smile
Posted 13th Aug 2008 at 17:59
martinj

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Location: Berkshire

Registered: 12 Feb 2007

Posts: 322

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Post #24
Hi,

Just thought I would put up an update, things have been a bit quiet with the car lately for many reasons, and I think next year's rally activity may be a bit sparse due to an extension on the house - but we'll have to see....

I have now picked up the spare set of axle spacers for the rear beam from the engineering shop and they have confirmed that they will be able to make further sets (min of 2 axle sets per run) for

martinj has attached the following image:

________________________________________

- Maxi rear axle hub spacers +53mm per side
- Maxi front steering rack extensions +40mm per side
Posted 23rd Dec 2008 at 20:44
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,838

Status: Offline

Post #25
Martin, bit late now, but have you ever considered a coilover rear setup?

you probably know of it but I've seen some quickly taken pictures of the setup on Dave west's Maxi KitCar, certainly works very well.

Still a long way to go with this project but if you enjoy the mechanical side of and haven't got a budget like Dave's then you might as well take your time in developing it LOL

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 23rd Dec 2008 at 20:58

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