Post #476
Yeah got some just need to cut it and glue it on________________________________________
www.pugsport-racing.co.uk
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| Author | Subject: My 306 Gti6 Throttle Boddies Race Car |
 roberts_306
Senior User  Location: Halesowen Registered: 21 Nov 2007 Posts: 789 Status: Offline |
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 Posted 21st Sep 2011 at 21:23
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roberts_306
Senior User Location: Halesowen Registered: 21 Nov 2007 Posts: 789 Status: Offline |
Post #477
Yeah just need to cut it then glue it on________________________________________ www.pugsport-racing.co.uk |
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Posted 21st Sep 2011 at 21:39
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roberts_306
Senior User Location: Halesowen Registered: 21 Nov 2007 Posts: 789 Status: Offline |
Post #478
Dont know why but it will only show above post if I post it twice, proper buggy________________________________________ www.pugsport-racing.co.uk |
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Posted 21st Sep 2011 at 21:40
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roberts_306
Senior User Location: Halesowen Registered: 21 Nov 2007 Posts: 789 Status: Offline |
Post #479
At last I finally got the answer I needed.Spoke to a company who installs roll cages, I said "I have purchased this Cage from Custom Cages they wont issue me a certificate for MSA Standards" he said if I was you I would phone a MSA Scrutineer so I phoned one local to me I told him my problem, he said the MSA are getting tough on Roll Cages, he said unless its been welded in by a professional welder then they would not issue a certificate. So my only option is to remove the cage and install a OMP bolt in roll cage which would be the easiest option for me. My next job will be to hire a plasma cutter and remove it hopefully without making too much mess. If anyone is interested in a Roll Cage for non competition use please feel free to contact me regarding a price, all you will need is some CDS tube which can be purchased from Custom Cages. ________________________________________ www.pugsport-racing.co.uk |
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Posted 2nd Nov 2011 at 20:52
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic  Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,839 Status: Offline |
Post #480
I wouldn't get an OMP cage, CC or SD are much nicer.why dont you just drive the car to CC and speak to them in person and get it sorted once and for all? ________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 2nd Nov 2011 at 21:38
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roberts_306
Senior User Location: Halesowen Registered: 21 Nov 2007 Posts: 789 Status: Offline |
Post #481
yeah and more money too they would want about £2000 to put a cage in.I have already spent a fortune on this car as it is and still have more money to spend. New cage £443 + Racing Licence £250 + Set of Toyo's + Fire extinguisher £150 + Rolling Road £250 + Clothing & Helmet, then I have to join the tin tops series £95 + Entry fee of £295 for each race + Fuel e.t.c. Thats before any troubles with the car, so I not cheap. ________________________________________ www.pugsport-racing.co.uk |
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Posted 2nd Nov 2011 at 21:46
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roberts_306
Senior User Location: Halesowen Registered: 21 Nov 2007 Posts: 789 Status: Offline |
Post #482
Custom Cages also told me the only way I can get around it is to make a wire frame exactly the same as my roll cage send it to MIRA and have it crush tested which woukd cost £4500, they did not explain at the time about any certificates or that I could never get one, so if anyone is considering racing please take note about self installing cages, get it done by a proper certified welder or motorsport company.________________________________________ www.pugsport-racing.co.uk |
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Posted 2nd Nov 2011 at 21:50
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pete_rallye
Seasoned Pro  Location: Yorkshire Registered: 12 Dec 2002 Posts: 5,253 Status: Offline |
Post #483
You're going to cut out a perfectly good custom cages roll cage, and replace it with a bolt in job?! Seems a bizarre way aroud the problem. Surely it would be easier to find a professional welder, give him some money, and get him to sign something saying he installed it? All the MSA do is check the quality of the welds, and they may drill a small hole to check the thickness of the tubes. Oh, and if you're complaining about the cost of racing already, I wouldn't bother going much further! ________________________________________ Oulton Park in a BTCC 306 vid 1Oulton Park in a BTCC 306 vid 2 Lap of the 'ring |
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Posted 2nd Nov 2011 at 22:40
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rikky
🦔 Location: cheshire Registered: 28 Feb 2004 Posts: 26,796 Status: Offline |
Post #484
you would be best off not doing it via telephone. a more personal approach is the best bet, i am sure of itedit> what pete said, could do that yes. i sent a weld sample off to CC and they blatantly ignored it. they just forget stuff so might aswell either visit them or get it done like pete says, albeit in a legal way, ofcourse  ________________________________________ 306 rallye reproduction decals (full sets/individual decals) | 306 b-pillar textured vinyl weatherstrips306 slam panel esso stickers | 306 yellow / orange / pension fund red side door badges gti6 inlet manifold badges | 306 rear boot badges (p2/p3) winner of Extraction of toys from prams with outstanding vigour award 2009 [source: gti6 owners club] |
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Posted 2nd Nov 2011 at 22:41
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Carl Chambers
Seasoned Pro  Location: suffolk/norfolk Registered: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 2,897 Status: Offline |
Post #485
welshpug! wrote: I wouldn't get an OMP cage, CC or SD are much nicer. why dont you just drive the car to CC and speak to them in person and get it sorted once and for all? no thing wrong why an omp cage, ok the fit isnt great but then nor are the cc ones. omp are far cheaper and have the certificat with them the cc or sd dont. sd cages fit well but are a lot more money and seem to be too close to the driver/to far in the cabin. anyway its each to their own. ________________________________________ Carl Chambersemail; pugnacious.peugeot@yahoo.co.uk . C.M.CHAMBERS CARS Peugeot Specialist Tel; 01379 586101 after 6.30 or 07889 082466 anytime. pugsport-racing.co.uk |
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Posted 2nd Nov 2011 at 23:17
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yippeekayay
Seasoned Pro  Location: wilts Registered: 27 Oct 2008 Posts: 4,144 Status: Offline |
Post #486
having recently spoken with a rac scrutineer, i would stay well away from omp cages as i know 205, saxo 106 and micra cages of all ages are no longer acceptable for rallying at national b and above. Safety devices would be my bet if you had to go that way. surely custom cages supply the relevant paper work and any approved welder, mot standard qualifies to install the cage. Sorry to hear your woes, typical msa i am afraid.________________________________________ 306 less for first time in nearly 7 years. Lets keep it that way... please refuse any offers i make to buy your 306 ( doctors letter supplied by request)Marmite and cheese sandwiches anyone??? Burns and Mcrae will be forever missed. x box "yippeekayaymofo" |
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Posted 2nd Nov 2011 at 23:58
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roberts_306
Senior User Location: Halesowen Registered: 21 Nov 2007 Posts: 789 Status: Offline |
Post #487
pete_rallye wrote: You're going to cut out a perfectly good custom cages roll cage, and replace it with a bolt in job?! Seems a bizarre way aroud the problem. Surely it would be easier to find a professional welder, give him some money, and get him to sign something saying he installed it? All the MSA do is check the quality of the welds, and they may drill a small hole to check the thickness of the tubes. Oh, and if you're complaining about the cost of racing already, I wouldn't bother going much further! Right let get this clear once and once only, there is no way cc are going to give me a certificate as my roll cage is a cl3 kit with extra bars to make it look like a cl4 kit. The cl3 kit has not been crush tested and I am not prepared to pay £4500 to get it done. Msa said that cc would not take chances on someone's welding he said recently that there had been accidents regarding roll cages like welds braking tube not upto spec etc. I am sure omp cages would not be allowed a certificate if they had not been crushed tested. Regarding the costs I am not complaining about this cost I am just making a point to welshpug that I am not spending 2 grand when I can get the job done by paying £500 ________________________________________ www.pugsport-racing.co.uk |
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Posted 3rd Nov 2011 at 06:27
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,839 Status: Offline |
Post #488
Thanks for clarifying the situation, made it quite frustrating from my point of view wondering why a seemingly decent looking set of tubes had to be scrapped and why you weren't getting a cert  No need to pay 2k, just get the CL4 kit welded by a competent welder unlike last time  How about just selling your caged shell to a trackday monkey and starting with a fresh bare shell? The OMP ones really aren't very nice, they do naff all to stiffen the shell as they bolt to the wheel arch tubs, not the chassis, baffling why they did that  ________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 3rd Nov 2011 at 09:34
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yippeekayay
Seasoned Pro Location: wilts Registered: 27 Oct 2008 Posts: 4,144 Status: Offline |
Post #489
honestly be careful of omp cages.... I spoke at length 2 weeks ago to a scrutineer. after recent incidents they are being scrutinised. I will be seeing the same scrutineer at anglesey this weekend. but if it has a cert I see yr point, but having rolled a few cars in my time once over Epynt I would never have an omp (imo) over a SD cage.________________________________________ 306 less for first time in nearly 7 years. Lets keep it that way... please refuse any offers i make to buy your 306 ( doctors letter supplied by request)Marmite and cheese sandwiches anyone??? Burns and Mcrae will be forever missed. x box "yippeekayaymofo" |
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Posted 3rd Nov 2011 at 11:26
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Carl Chambers
Seasoned Pro Location: suffolk/norfolk Registered: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 2,897 Status: Offline |
Post #490
welshpug! wrote: The OMP ones really aren't very nice, they do naff all to stiffen the shell as they bolt to the wheel arch tubs, not the chassis, baffling why they did that I thought that at first nut after trying to reshape the part on the wheel arch that they mount to so the cage feet would sit flat you will find its actually double/tripple skinned there, because its where the standard seat belt mount and the original seats mount, so in fact its very strong! I would have ideally liked mine to go to the rear beam mounts like my 205 one does, but like Dave I went for omp as its cheaper and easier as it has the FIA certificate sent out with it and not needed to be applied for like both CD and CC. I found SD very unhelpful as they are based only 25miles from here so wanted to support them, but they didnt seem interested. plus their cage does sit nice and close to the roof so seat/head clearance is limited. yippeekayay wrote: honestly be careful of omp cages.... I spoke at length 2 weeks ago to a scrutineer. after recent incidents they are being scrutinised. I will be seeing the same scrutineer at anglesey this weekend. but if it has a cert I see yr point, but having rolled a few cars in my time once over Epynt I would never have an omp (imo) over a SD cage. cant see how they could be allowed to restrict the use of one cage make? if its FIA approved then they cant really? its like saying you cant have Sparco seats or racesuit? If the FIA approval is there then surely thats it? ________________________________________ Carl Chambersemail; pugnacious.peugeot@yahoo.co.uk . C.M.CHAMBERS CARS Peugeot Specialist Tel; 01379 586101 after 6.30 or 07889 082466 anytime. pugsport-racing.co.uk |
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Posted 3rd Nov 2011 at 21:12
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,839 Status: Offline |
Post #491
not if the rules have changed, and its not ALL OMP cages, just those used in pugs i believe.________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 3rd Nov 2011 at 21:22
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roberts_306
Senior User Location: Halesowen Registered: 21 Nov 2007 Posts: 789 Status: Offline |
Post #492
Well said Carl  Started to cut Roll Cage tonight will hopefully have it out by next weekend, it's putting up a good fight tho ________________________________________ www.pugsport-racing.co.uk |
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Posted 3rd Nov 2011 at 21:26
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Carl Chambers
Seasoned Pro Location: suffolk/norfolk Registered: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 2,897 Status: Offline |
Post #493
welshpug! wrote: not if the rules have changed, and its not ALL OMP cages, just those used in pugs i believe. where is this rule change then? if the omp cage has a fia certificate with it and its a 306 cage it has to be ok. thats again like saying all sparco seat belts arent allowed in blue cars. but if it true were is this rule change? the nice man at Demon Tweeks assured me it was fine for club circuit racing? Welshy you need to remember that rallying has a totally different set of rules to circiut racing, and yes you are correct there has been alot of rule changes in rallying. but plus if what you say is ture please back your statment up with some evidence? if not I will continue to beleave the nice man at Demon Tweens who was more than helpful and Im pretty sure he know what hes takling about otherwise Im going to be asking for my money back! ________________________________________ Carl Chambersemail; pugnacious.peugeot@yahoo.co.uk . C.M.CHAMBERS CARS Peugeot Specialist Tel; 01379 586101 after 6.30 or 07889 082466 anytime. pugsport-racing.co.uk |
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Posted 3rd Nov 2011 at 22:20
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phillipm
Seasoned Pro  Location: Rotherham Registered: 15 Oct 2006 Posts: 20,607 Status: Offline |
Post #494
yippeekayay wrote: having recently spoken with a rac scrutineer, i would stay well away from omp cages as i know 205, saxo 106 and micra cages of all ages are no longer acceptable for rallying at national b and above. Safety devices would be my bet if you had to go that way. surely custom cages supply the relevant paper work and any approved welder, mot standard qualifies to install the cage. Sorry to hear your woes, typical msa i am afraid. That's the bend in the front legs, there's many cages like that, they should never have been allowed to use them to start with but the rules were a little cloudy, the MSA has clarified them and any cages with a dog-leg front pillar is now ineligable for competition without modification (but modifications to an MSA certified cage invalidate the cage certificate, so catch 22...needs to be re-inspected, or have the material certificates and be to Blue Book spec.) ________________________________________ - Bespoke rollcages/additions/adjustments. Half cages right up to complete custom spaceframes - MSA/FIA spec, CDS, ROPT, T45, etc - PM meEmail me! Custom-made polybushes available - need an odd size or fitment? - anything from batch work to one-off pieces. |
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Posted 3rd Nov 2011 at 23:18
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mad scientist
Junior User  Location: Stoke Registered: 17 Nov 2008 Posts: 81 Status: Offline |
Post #495
phillipm wrote: yippeekayay wrote: having recently spoken with a rac scrutineer, i would stay well away from omp cages as i know 205, saxo 106 and micra cages of all ages are no longer acceptable for rallying at national b and above. Safety devices would be my bet if you had to go that way. surely custom cages supply the relevant paper work and any approved welder, mot standard qualifies to install the cage. Sorry to hear your woes, typical msa i am afraid. That's the bend in the front legs, there's many cages like that, they should never have been allowed to use them to start with but the rules were a little cloudy, the MSA has clarified them and any cages with a dog-leg front pillar is now ineligable for competition without modification (but modifications to an MSA certified cage invalidate the cage certificate, so catch 22...needs to be re-inspected, or have the material certificates and be to Blue Book spec.) This is not entirely correct. You can have 1 bend in the front leg below the top of the screen, but no more than 1. I can confirm the OMP cage in the 205 is still fine for rallying. If installed correctly, it is more than adequate. If you think about it, a front leg has to have at least one bend in most cars. ________________________________________ 205 rally car with 2.2 hybrid 6 engine: phase 2 engine build underway. |
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Posted 9th Nov 2011 at 14:10
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daveyboy
aka Jim Davey  Location: Southampton Registered: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 8,648 Status: Offline |
Post #496
Read his post again, he said a dog leg. Many cages have one bend at the top of the screen, and then two more bends to get to the vertical position before welding it to the floor, and it's that thats no longer allowed.________________________________________ R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.Some of my services: (See my for sale threads) Engine mount/chassis repair Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION Harness bars |
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Posted 9th Nov 2011 at 14:30
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mad scientist
Junior User Location: Stoke Registered: 17 Nov 2008 Posts: 81 Status: Offline |
Post #497
Correct, and quite right too. It's essentially pre-weakening the front leg. Wouldn't fancy getting crushed by an origami front cage. Worse than this though is the way some cages are fixed to the floor. I saw one recently where the tube was welded straight to the floor pan.________________________________________ 205 rally car with 2.2 hybrid 6 engine: phase 2 engine build underway. |
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Posted 9th Nov 2011 at 14:36
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roberts_306
Senior User Location: Halesowen Registered: 21 Nov 2007 Posts: 789 Status: Offline |
Post #498
Quick updateRoll cage is nearly out so will be in the For Sale section very soon. ________________________________________ www.pugsport-racing.co.uk |
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Posted 7th Dec 2011 at 07:38
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roberts_306
Senior User Location: Halesowen Registered: 21 Nov 2007 Posts: 789 Status: Offline |
Post #499
Roll cage is now out at last it's been hard work just need to grind up floor and have a tidy up pics to come later this week________________________________________ www.pugsport-racing.co.uk |
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Posted 19th Dec 2011 at 18:03
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daveyboy
aka Jim Davey Location: Southampton Registered: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 8,648 Status: Offline |
Post #500
Who are you getting to do the the install this time then?________________________________________ R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.Some of my services: (See my for sale threads) Engine mount/chassis repair Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION Harness bars |
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Posted 20th Dec 2011 at 20:56
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