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Author Subject: 306 Rallye Turbo, worlds only one??
JWP EFi

Turbo Legend!

Location: edinburgh

Registered: 07 Mar 2010

Posts: 2,163

Status: Offline

Post #1
Hello folks, most of you know me, i own Jack walker partnership/EFi systems in Edinburgh.
For years ive been playing with the XU10 and turbos and have had good results and more so 100% reliable and drivable.
My Black GTi6 has been turbo'd for just over 2 years now, the mot has expired and really needs a chassis overhaul...
My 1999 Rallye, previously owned by coskev, My good friend graham bought the car a number of years ago and i was entrusted to look after it so i knew when i bought it it was a good car!
It has,
AP 330mm brakes
Koni shocks all round
23mm torsion bars
Thicker ARB, i forget which one
BBM solid beam mounts
Vibratechnics wishbone bushes
Lower brace
Spec may seem fairly basic to some but this car drives soso well, not harsh and doesnt feel wallowly by any means, ive had fancy setups in the past and for a road car i feel some things can make the car terrible to drive.
Anyway, my engine of choice is:
XU10J4RS
87.00mm wossner pistons
PEC rods
ACL bearings
Big valve head (inlets only) believed to be a longman head but i have no or ever saw proof, either way it has larger seats and valves.
DP engineering tubular manifold
GTX2867 gen2 turbo, this is to be replaced by a GTX30, ill explain why in another thread.
3inch turbo back system with 2 boxes, nice and subtle
Tial wastegate
Twin pass FMIC

BE3 from a 1993 405 1.9TD, these have chunkier teeth than the later ones
Quaiffe LSD
Helix paddle clutch.

This combo has proven to be very reliable, i have since built 4 other engines identical to this for customers

I dont really plan to turn this car into a track day warrior, but more a fast road weopon. Many will probably slate me for doing this but seeing as these cars aren't worth a great deal and the thought of a 306 Rallye with rally car performance interests me.
Work is extremely busy and this wont be an overnight turnaround but ill add pics etc as i go
Cheers, seb
Posted 7th Jul 2019 at 21:01
rallyestyle

Seasoned Pro

Location: London

Registered: 23 Jul 2003

Posts: 14,990

Status: Offline

Post #2
Looking forward to seeing the work Thumbs up Nice to see something a little more alternative too Smile

________________________________________

Just Drive It
Posted 7th Jul 2019 at 22:07
JWP EFi

Turbo Legend!

Location: edinburgh

Registered: 07 Mar 2010

Posts: 2,163

Status: Offline

Post #3
Other than the badge or should i say sticker its very similar to what has already been done before
Posted 7th Jul 2019 at 23:11
Ben_W

Formerly gpm

Location: Lutterworth

Registered: 01 Sep 2007

Posts: 2,941

Status: Offline

Post #4
Seb, when you say chassis overhaul, what do you mean? I'm hoping not down.to rust/rot issues because Coskev did a cracking job of prepping that, although I'm not sure he went as far as I did in terms of removing all of the factory stonechip. His was the inspiration for mine and I know he prepped it very well....if it is due to rust/rot, I'm now concerned as ive gone pretty much the same route....

Of course, I may well be barking up the wrong tree and you mean you are refreshing suspension components etc, in which case, crack on Big grin

________________________________________

Cherry Red Rallye .... On going OEM spec resto

China Blue GTi6 .... Weekend toy

Black 208 GTi .... Wife's car now

Silver BMW 550i.... The executive missile

Posted 8th Jul 2019 at 10:09
tvrfan007

Seasoned Pro

Location: In the garage

Registered: 29 May 2005

Posts: 3,488

Status: Offline

Post #5
Ben... read it again.. he said his black GTi6 needs chassis work. LOL:

________________________________________

I'm Si btw Tee hee

Night Blue VW Golf GTD
Bianca LBSC Rallye - Track/Road Slag Project Thread
Sparkling Silver Mini Cooper D - Super Dooper Superman - (The other half's wheels)
Posted 8th Jul 2019 at 11:38
Ben_W

Formerly gpm

Location: Lutterworth

Registered: 01 Sep 2007

Posts: 2,941

Status: Offline

Post #6
tvrfan007 wrote:
Ben... read it again.. he said his black GTi6 needs chassis work. LOL:


Roll eyes Roll eyes Roll eyes Roll eyes Roll eyes Roll eyes Whistle Whistle

I'm such a dickhead sometimes

________________________________________

Cherry Red Rallye .... On going OEM spec resto

China Blue GTi6 .... Weekend toy

Black 208 GTi .... Wife's car now

Silver BMW 550i.... The executive missile

Posted 8th Jul 2019 at 18:43
JWP EFi

Turbo Legend!

Location: edinburgh

Registered: 07 Mar 2010

Posts: 2,163

Status: Offline

Post #7
My black one needs a chassis overhaul not because of rot etc. I meant it needs better suspension, thicker bars etc etc.

My rallye is just as good as when coskev did it all those years ago
Posted 8th Jul 2019 at 18:54
IvayloPavlov

Regular

Location: Sofia,Bulgaria

Registered: 06 Aug 2012

Posts: 265

Status: Offline

Post #8
Any feedback about the clutch?
Posted 9th Jul 2019 at 20:29
gnrlee Forum Admin

Location: Leeds

Registered: 20 Aug 2005

Posts: 8,882

Status: Offline

Post #9
Love

will be following with much interest! Big grin

________________________________________

Proud Member of the ASTOR Owners Club
Posted 9th Jul 2019 at 22:04
JWP EFi

Turbo Legend!

Location: edinburgh

Registered: 07 Mar 2010

Posts: 2,163

Status: Offline

Post #10
Clutch, a Helix sprung paddle plate along with a branded pressure plate will work well.

David you already know enough
Posted 9th Jul 2019 at 22:38
gnrlee Forum Admin

Location: Leeds

Registered: 20 Aug 2005

Posts: 8,882

Status: Offline

Post #11
Razz

________________________________________

Proud Member of the ASTOR Owners Club
Posted 9th Jul 2019 at 23:10
IvayloPavlov

Regular

Location: Sofia,Bulgaria

Registered: 06 Aug 2012

Posts: 265

Status: Offline

Post #12
Do you have dyno graph with yours? How many torque you saw? My plan is to achieve almost 400 ft/lbs.
Posted 9th Jul 2019 at 23:56
JWP EFi

Turbo Legend!

Location: edinburgh

Registered: 07 Mar 2010

Posts: 2,163

Status: Offline

Post #13
Yes ill post up all of my plots etc.
7 psi 284 bhp 291 ftlb
11 psi 341 bhp 360 ft lb
16 psi 362 bhp 380 ft lb.

Very hard to use 380 ft lb on the road, ive softened the ignition advance in the mid range to give a tamer power delivery
Posted 10th Jul 2019 at 06:56
eliotrw

Seasoned Pro

Location: Southwark

Registered: 18 Jul 2010

Posts: 4,864

Status: Offline

Post #14
Pheweeeeee Love it.

________________________________________

Ex- Phase 3 China GTi-6 T-Reg
Posted 10th Jul 2019 at 09:51
jeffers Forum Admin

Location: Leeds

Registered: 14 Dec 2003

Posts: 3,702

Status: Offline

Post #15
I drove the Black 6 the other week before the engine was removed and can vouch for how well it goes, also it really is a driveable conversion. It’s just like driving a standard car when pootleing round town, bury the loud pedal and the earth rotates a huge amount faster!

________________________________________

Team Running Engine again!
Team Negative Camber!
My Budget track engine build thread!
Now appearing at a Trackday near you!!Hyper Hyper
Posted 10th Jul 2019 at 11:47
JWP EFi

Turbo Legend!

Location: edinburgh

Registered: 07 Mar 2010

Posts: 2,163

Status: Offline

Post #16
Well ladies and gents, hello! Covid 19 has given us all plenty of time to catch up on our projects and me included, this is probably to first time in 2 years ive had to do something due to taking over a business etc, anyway here is my Rallye, as much as ive always liked this car I must say I found it difficult to modify it much but one day I was tidying up the workshop and gathered up all the parts I had from my previous builds, turned out I pretty much had everything I needed to complete my plan, literally all I had to buy was metal ties for the exhaust heat wrap, seeing as pretty much everyone was closed, Amazon prime saved the day and £7 later I had them!

My last setup was a fully built engine and made almost 370bhp at 14 psi of boost, due to workloads that car gradually was broken for parts, Ross Halpenny bought the engine and I held on to the turbo kit, in the past I have turbo'd stock engines and gained good results. The Rallye had 147k miles on it and I didn't want to open it up and let the magic out lol - normally with a stock motor I would open up the top ring gap but as I had little chance of getting a new head gasket etc I continued on, the spec list includes:

DP engineering exhaust manifold
Custom 3 inch downpipe and system, no mid silencer and still is very quiet
GTX2867 turbo

DP twin pass intercooler with custom piping
Spal 12 inch fan with stock Nissens radiator
Stock water to oil heat exchanger

I wanted to keep the 6 speed box but when I took the quaife diff out of my 5 speed box I quickly realised I didn't have any new diff bolts, seeing as these always tear up the threads on removal I had no choice but to re purpose the 5 speed from a ph2 xsara VTS, 3.6 CWP
Stock valeo clutch
Car already had Baker BM engine mounts

Megasquirt 3 pro ECU (again the car was already running on this and as a rule of thumb pretty much any project car I own I switch to stand alone management)
OE coil on plug setup
GM 3 bar map sensor

Saab Turbo bosch injectors, these flowed out at 420cc so are just about capable for this stage
Stock GTi6 fuel pump
Rising rate fuel pressure regulator with Holley pressure sensor
I have a water/methanol injection kit to go on but so far not fitted it
Slight cam timing adjustment to reduce the overlap

I spent a whole day and worked right through the night converting it all over, I knew if I took a break the car would probably just sit in the corner of the workshop forever more!!
Engine now up and running I carried out a few checks and she was ready for some light mapping, I had modified the wastegate spring to give only 4 psi boost as I wanted to gently creep up on it, so far so good, now swapped to a heavier spring, boost pressure peaking and holding 11 psi I drove around for approx. 200 miles and man it felt quick!! I didn't run at 11psi for long though as my radiator ballooned, luckily the MS3 ecu has lots of spare inputs and outputs so I fitted a Holley pressure transducer to the radiator and I quickly found after a few hard runs the coolant pressure almost had a direct correlation to boost pressure, ill post a pic of the datalog - this meant I was lifting the head, rather than risk hydro locking the motor I lowered to boost and was now seeing a max of 7.4 psi, this along with 14 degrees of ignition timing seemed to be the happy spot.
1040 miles now covered, fuelling dialled in, as this is a high compression turbo engine I am running a richer mixture to keep it alive, 11.5 AFR, it was now time to strap the car down onto the dyno and see what it produces.....
286bhp and with a slight increase in ignition almost 260ft lb, this is a PB for me, previously I achieved 281 bhp on a very similar combo in a 205 GTi.
The car is amazing to drive at this level, normal driving feels just like a standard car with the stock clutch and high compression, as this turbo is so responsive im well into boost at 2200rpm and pulls strong all the way to the redline. To be honest I almost prefer this one to my old forged setup, doesn't give mental torque steer through the mid range yet still enough to have good fun on the back roads! Car still has 195/55 Michelin tyres and i think once they are worn ill maybe go to NS2R's, obviously the brakes are struggling at this point, again just standard pads and discs all round, DS 2500's will be fitted soon.
Other than that I cant really fault the rest of it, water and oil temps are good although ive since ordered an oil cooler, im using normal Shell 10/40 oil, nothing fancy at all, I will fit the WM kit and push it up to around the 300bhp, im not overly concerned about destroying this engine - I just want to slowly push it then cover some miles, if I was to give it aggressive spark advance I know for fact I would bend a rod or 2! I could fit a decompression plate but seeing how well its doing I wont bother, the stock con rods will always be the weak point

Anyway ill include a few pictures and videos of it on the dyno, hopefully David will keep me right here, I cant seem to upload anything right at this minute

Cheers, Seb Thumbs up

The Build Process



















Youtube RR Clicky 1

Youtube RR Clicky 2

ECU,..













Posted 17th May 2020 at 15:11
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,838

Status: Offline

Post #17
there's a trick to the diff bolts, I haven't stripped any since the first diff I took apart and realised what was happening.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 17th May 2020 at 11:55
JWP EFi

Turbo Legend!

Location: edinburgh

Registered: 07 Mar 2010

Posts: 2,163

Status: Offline

Post #18
Yeah, I find the 17mm headed ones easier, 15mm ones strip for fun, heat/no heat, cracking them away etc. seems the crown moves around ever so slightly and puts things off centre
Posted 17th May 2020 at 12:00
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,838

Status: Offline

Post #19
never used heat, not had one strip in years!

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 17th May 2020 at 14:02
JWP EFi

Turbo Legend!

Location: edinburgh

Registered: 07 Mar 2010

Posts: 2,163

Status: Offline

Post #20
Given the choice I would rather replace them after one use, probably not needed but one of those things that makes me sleep better
Posted 17th May 2020 at 14:08
pug_306

Seasoned Pro

Location: Great Hockham

Registered: 28 May 2013

Posts: 1,592

Status: Offline

Post #21
Hi buddy do you do a drive in / out conversion or how much would you supply a kit for ?

________________________________________

1998 Supercharged White Rallye
1992 205 GTi6
205 Turbo 340bhp
Posted 17th May 2020 at 14:17
JWP EFi

Turbo Legend!

Location: edinburgh

Registered: 07 Mar 2010

Posts: 2,163

Status: Offline

Post #22
pug_306 wrote:
Hi buddy do you do a drive in / out conversion or how much would you supply a kit for ?


ive done 7 of them for customers over the last 2 years, from a business point of view their not really worth it on a drive in drive out basis, once things get back to normal ill still be offering kits, there are quite a few options.
Posted 17th May 2020 at 14:22
Day666

Seasoned Pro

Location: Bristol

Registered: 20 Apr 2013

Posts: 5,214

Status: Offline

Post #23
JWP EFi wrote:
pug_306 wrote:
Hi buddy do you do a drive in / out conversion or how much would you supply a kit for ?


ive done 7 of them for customers over the last 2 years, from a business point of view their not really worth it on a drive in drive out basis, once things get back to normal ill still be offering kits, there are quite a few options.


Blimey hello Stranger !!!!!
Hope your well Seb ?
I asked Lee Egan how you’ve been after all the Facebook rubbish (I’ll say no more about that crap Thumbs down
Really good to see you post something completely different to the normal stuff and I hope people appreciate the bloody blood sweat and tears you put into your builds Thumbs up
Keep on posting Seb it’s a great interesting read mucker
Posted 17th May 2020 at 17:46
JWP EFi

Turbo Legend!

Location: edinburgh

Registered: 07 Mar 2010

Posts: 2,163

Status: Offline

Post #24
Damian - your still alive! good to hear from you, Lee Egan is an absolute gem to deal with, I can probably count on one hand how many I would love to deal with again, yeah, I don't bother with FB now in fact I wasn't on for months prior to the latest shenanigans!

Cheers bud, ive been itching to go into something completely new but old habits die hard lol, just trying to catch up with a few peoples projects on here been years since I was properly on here
Posted 17th May 2020 at 19:36
Day666

Seasoned Pro

Location: Bristol

Registered: 20 Apr 2013

Posts: 5,214

Status: Offline

Post #25
JWP EFi wrote:
Damian - your still alive! good to hear from you, Lee Egan is an absolute gem to deal with, I can probably count on one hand how many I would love to deal with again, yeah, I don't bother with FB now in fact I wasn't on for months prior to the latest shenanigans!

Cheers bud, ive been itching to go into something completely new but old habits die hard lol, just trying to catch up with a few peoples projects on here been years since I was properly on here


Yes ...know what you mean Seb ....I wouldn’t of put him in touch with you if he was a tosser Whistle
Keep the updates and pics coming ....
Do what you do best Razz
Posted 17th May 2020 at 20:10

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