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Author Subject: Removing the subframe - make the engine / gearbox a stressed com
demondriverdan

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Location: Londinium

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Post #1
This is purely a hypothetical discussion but do we think is involved in removing the subframe altogether and having the engine and gearbox as the mount points for the wishbones?

The idea stems from when I was looking at one of the 406 super tourers and noticed they have no subframe:



(Link to bigger photo: http://i.imgur.com/hSfkd4X.jpg)

Would the engine and box be able to take the strain of the front of the car? Surely you'd need to uprate the size of the gearbox bolts to handle the load?

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Posted 2nd Dec 2016 at 11:41
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gnrlee Forum Admin

Location: Leeds

Registered: 20 Aug 2005

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Post #2
personally i'd have said not to the gearbox and Engine,..
the only thing stopping the engine swinging about like a pair of bollox is that rear engine mount!
which wouldn't put up with the strain the wishbones would put on them!

for our design of car i'd still say it needed a subframe maybe a lighter one could be constructed like this one!
but you wouldnt get away with ditching it,..



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Posted 2nd Dec 2016 at 12:17
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prism7guy

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Post #3
I'm toying with the idea of making a tubular one. Just need to get my hands on a standard subframe to make a jig from.

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Goldie the track car.
Posted 2nd Dec 2016 at 12:25
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welshpug!

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Post #4
tbh you need to start with a good set of hubs and uprights, put the pivot points wherever they work, the only parts of a standard subframe you need are where it bolts to the shell and the rack bolts on.

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Posted 2nd Dec 2016 at 12:34
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welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

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Post #5
satchell chassis..

welshpug! has attached the following image:

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Posted 2nd Dec 2016 at 12:37
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demondriverdan

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Post #6
welshpug! wrote:
tbh you need to start with a good set of hubs and uprights, put the pivot points wherever they work, the only parts of a standard subframe you need are where it bolts to the shell and the rack bolts on.


Would a good set of hubs and uprights be an aftermarket thing or something from another car?

If you were to mount the wishbones to the engine then presumably you'd need to get rid of all rubber in the mountings so the engine doesn't move? Otherwise your geometry will change as the engine flexes Big grin

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Posted 2nd Dec 2016 at 15:12
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prism7guy

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Post #7
welshpug! wrote:
tbh you need to start with a good set of hubs and uprights, put the pivot points wherever they work, the only parts of a standard subframe you need are where it bolts to the shell and the rack bolts on.


That's all i want one for really. I want to move the wishbone mounting points to sort out the roll centre. I'm a bit stuck with being able to move the lower joint on the upright as it sits within the brake rotor.

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Posted 2nd Dec 2016 at 15:34
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demondriverdan

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Post #8
I have a spare subframe if you need one to work from? In return for early / cheap access to the tubular version Big grin

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Posted 2nd Dec 2016 at 15:36
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prism7guy

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Post #9
The tubular subframe would be to suit my tubular wishbones for the time being, if it's a success i'd consider making them for normal wishbones too. I'll let you know if i need the subframe, it'll be a while yet though as i need to make a new garage/workshop and i want a plate diff before i build one of them Laugh

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Posted 2nd Dec 2016 at 15:40
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demondriverdan

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Post #10
I'd want it with your wishbones as well so that would be fine for me Big grin

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Posted 2nd Dec 2016 at 16:10
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welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

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Post #11
the 406 and 307 hubs seem to work very well on the arrangements Colin has made up, its a lot easier to lower the pivot point on those hubs and make it strong due to the type of balljoint fixing they use.

to take it any further you'd be looking at a completely custom fabricated hub like shown above on the 406 supertourer, but tbh the results colins had with the factory hubs you'd only be gaining a lighter structure and possibly better wheel bearing life if you love smashing kerbs.

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Posted 2nd Dec 2016 at 16:14
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mocinim

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Post #12
prism7guy wrote:
I'm toying with the idea of making a tubular one. Just need to get my hands on a standard subframe to make a jig from.


I have an old subframe its a bit rotten but its free otherwise its going to yhe dump
Will only cost postage if you want it

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Posted 2nd Dec 2016 at 18:02
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