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| Author | Subject: SC exhaust help |
 manthos
Seasoned Pro  Location: Norwich Registered: 29 Apr 2009 Posts: 1,966 Status: Offline |
Post #51
roland rat wrote: I'd be looking at the boost pipes before an exhaust if it was me Why? what would you be looking at? ________________________________________ Team SUPERCHARGED I LIVE FOR THE 306 Old Project thread Clicky: [url =http://www.306gti6.com]click here[/url] remove the space between [url = |
 Posted 22nd May 2016 at 22:28
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roland rat
Yeeeah Rat fans!  Location: Swansea Registered: 29 Nov 2006 Posts: 22,284 Status: Offline |
Post #52
manthos wrote: roland rat wrote: I'd be looking at the boost pipes before an exhaust if it was me Why? what would you be looking at? The bends at the intercooler and into the tb housing. |
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Posted 23rd May 2016 at 18:32
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manthos
Seasoned Pro Location: Norwich Registered: 29 Apr 2009 Posts: 1,966 Status: Offline |
Post #53
I mentioned that in a previous thread and it is not an issue on a low boost Rich W confirmed because the pipes are 76mm and the restrictor in the charger on a low boost is 38 so what do you think is more restrictive? ?________________________________________ Team SUPERCHARGED I LIVE FOR THE 306 Old Project thread Clicky: [url =http://www.306gti6.com]click here[/url] remove the space between [url = |
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Posted 23rd May 2016 at 18:46
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armzsc6
Seasoned Pro  Location: Crowborough Registered: 22 Mar 2008 Posts: 3,445 Status: Offline |
Post #54
Mine are welded right angles at 2.5" all pipework and cooler is what's used for high boost which can achieve 400bhp so don't think it's restrictive at all tbh. I'd just get the restrictive part removed from the decat and possibly swap the Jetex back box for something straight through unless you're going on track. ________________________________________ Black power baby! SUUUUUPERCHARGED Seat Leon FR TDI 190BHP 300lbft daily gti-6 killer :p 12x 306's owned so far Cambelts, clutches, service work carried out on All makes and models, Peugeot Citroen / mitsubishi specialist. Pug planet / Citroen Lexia diagnostics / code reads available. |
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Posted 23rd May 2016 at 19:29
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roland rat
Yeeeah Rat fans! Location: Swansea Registered: 29 Nov 2006 Posts: 22,284 Status: Offline |
Post #55
manthos wrote: I mentioned that in a previous thread and it is not an issue on a low boost Rich W confirmed because the pipes are 76mm and the restrictor in the charger on a low boost is 38 so what do you think is more restrictive? ? When it was at the rolling road the guys said it wasn't the best design for flow |
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Posted 23rd May 2016 at 19:33
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manthos
Seasoned Pro Location: Norwich Registered: 29 Apr 2009 Posts: 1,966 Status: Offline |
Post #56
and they are correct however because the diameter of the charger restrictor is half the size of the pipes it makes no difference in thus specific case________________________________________ Team SUPERCHARGED I LIVE FOR THE 306 Old Project thread Clicky: [url =http://www.306gti6.com]click here[/url] remove the space between [url = |
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Posted 23rd May 2016 at 20:03
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic  Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,838 Status: Online |
Post #57
its not always about how much air, but what it is doing________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 23rd May 2016 at 20:14
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manthos
Seasoned Pro Location: Norwich Registered: 29 Apr 2009 Posts: 1,966 Status: Offline |
Post #58
welshpug! wrote: its not always about how much air, but what it is doing So what are you saying because Rich has said it's fine ________________________________________ Team SUPERCHARGED I LIVE FOR THE 306 Old Project thread Clicky: [url =http://www.306gti6.com]click here[/url] remove the space between [url = |
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Posted 23rd May 2016 at 20:27
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manthos
Seasoned Pro Location: Norwich Registered: 29 Apr 2009 Posts: 1,966 Status: Offline |
Post #59
click heresee post 20 ________________________________________ Team SUPERCHARGED I LIVE FOR THE 306 Old Project thread Clicky: [url =http://www.306gti6.com]click here[/url] remove the space between [url = |
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Posted 23rd May 2016 at 20:30
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,838 Status: Online |
Post #60
manthos wrote: welshpug! wrote: its not always about how much air, but what it is doing So what are you saying because Rich has said it's fine no, i mean exactly what i said! ________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 23rd May 2016 at 20:37
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manthos
Seasoned Pro Location: Norwich Registered: 29 Apr 2009 Posts: 1,966 Status: Offline |
Post #61
welshpug! wrote: manthos wrote: welshpug! wrote: its not always about how much air, but what it is doing So what are you saying because Rich has said it's fine no, i mean exactly what i said! So please explain to me because I am not as knowledgeable as you. ________________________________________ Team SUPERCHARGED I LIVE FOR THE 306 Old Project thread Clicky: [url =http://www.306gti6.com]click here[/url] remove the space between [url = |
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Posted 23rd May 2016 at 20:57
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Cjwatson27
Seasoned Pro  Location: Oxford Registered: 17 Sep 2013 Posts: 1,968 Status: Offline |
Post #62
Probably well out of date now but David vizard covers some of this stuff when he explains main idols designs and think there's abit on forces induction. But like I said it's may not be relevant now and for the love of me I can't think of the terms they use ________________________________________ Old pugs don't die they just get faster |
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Posted 23rd May 2016 at 21:16
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,838 Status: Online |
Post #63
vizards book is still as relevant now as it has ever been, as its still a 4 stroke internal combustion engine.________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 23rd May 2016 at 21:22
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Cjwatson27
Seasoned Pro Location: Oxford Registered: 17 Sep 2013 Posts: 1,968 Status: Offline |
Post #64
Good to know. Probably the only book I've read in the last 15 years. Shame he never done one on peugeots ________________________________________ Old pugs don't die they just get faster |
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Posted 23rd May 2016 at 21:26
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,838 Status: Online |
Post #65
manthos wrote: welshpug! wrote: manthos wrote: welshpug! wrote: its not always about how much air, but what it is doing so what are you saying because Rich has said it's fine no, i mean exactly what i said! So please explain to me because I am not as knowledgeable as you. you just have to look at it and imagine what the air is doing in there, then look at any o.e intake system, you wont see angles like that anywhere. a smaller pipe with a decent mandrel bent curve will be much better. ________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 23rd May 2016 at 21:26
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manthos
Seasoned Pro Location: Norwich Registered: 29 Apr 2009 Posts: 1,966 Status: Offline |
Post #66
Yes I agree that's why I created the other thread I posted up here about the pipework I thought logically that there should be curved pipework and not those angles because the air is just hitting a wall but I was told by Rich it's ok and as I am less knowledgable I thought ok.________________________________________ Team SUPERCHARGED I LIVE FOR THE 306 Old Project thread Clicky: [url =http://www.306gti6.com]click here[/url] remove the space between [url = |
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Posted 23rd May 2016 at 21:52
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manthos
Seasoned Pro Location: Norwich Registered: 29 Apr 2009 Posts: 1,966 Status: Offline |
Post #67
However I would like to change the pipework for less bends and nice curved ones too________________________________________ Team SUPERCHARGED I LIVE FOR THE 306 Old Project thread Clicky: [url =http://www.306gti6.com]click here[/url] remove the space between [url = |
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Posted 23rd May 2016 at 21:53
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rich_w
Seasoned Pro  Location: Havant, Hampshire Registered: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 5,412 Status: Offline |
Post #68
Changing the bends will make f**k all difference on a low boost setup, where the restrictor is substantially smaller (38mm) than the pipework (51 or 63mm). The resistance or pressure drop across the mitred bends (over and above mandrel bends) is not significant enough to release any significant gains. If you were putting 600 BHP through the same diameter pipework it probably would have more of an impact. On my old car power was certainly not limited by these bends, and that had nearly twice the power of yours. The general rule is to keep airspeed below 0.4 mach. A 2" pipe at 0.4 mach would flow 585 CFM at this velocity. At red line, a low boost 6 would be flowing around 375 CFM. So what I'm saying is there plenty of head room in your setup, and in the real world, changing the bends from a mitred bend to a mandrel won't make any noticeable difference. If you want some cheaper gains, post me your restrictor ring and £20 and I will machine 0.5mm out of it, that will give you more than any changes to the boost pipe set up for a fraction of the cost! Although you can't go too far or it will run lean. With our pipework route, you can't fit mandrel bends in either. You can't get the bend radius required. Mandrel bent aluminium generally has a bend radius of 2D, so that's 4" on a 2" pipe. You just can't physically fit them in, we have tried it. You would have to change the pipework route for mandrel bends. ________________________________________ Contact Details:rich@lynxpowerengineering.co.uk 07732 822546 |
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Posted 24th May 2016 at 00:38
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,838 Status: Online |
Post #69
why do you need 52mm pipe with a 38mm restrictor?________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 24th May 2016 at 05:47
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marco gti6
Seasoned Pro  Location: Troisvierges Registered: 09 Mar 2009 Posts: 1,350 Status: Offline |
Post #70
0.5mm off the resrictor it is then  You shouldn't have written that mate... |
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Posted 24th May 2016 at 08:02
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manthos
Seasoned Pro Location: Norwich Registered: 29 Apr 2009 Posts: 1,966 Status: Offline |
Post #71
I'm so pleased you have come along to this thread with all the knowledge Rich thanks for all your help. I will change the exhaust and see what bhp that gives me and depending on that I may take you up on the offer of maching 0.5mm off the restrictor ring.________________________________________ Team SUPERCHARGED I LIVE FOR THE 306 Old Project thread Clicky: [url =http://www.306gti6.com]click here[/url] remove the space between [url = |
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Posted 24th May 2016 at 09:36
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cully
Seasoned Pro  Location: Cullompton Registered: 12 Jun 2013 Posts: 1,093 Status: Offline |
Post #72
0.5mm off the diameter or radius  |
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Posted 24th May 2016 at 09:37
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,838 Status: Online |
Post #73
its not about resistance or pressure drop, but what the air does.show the pipes to any decent engine builder and they'll cringe ________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 24th May 2016 at 12:55
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rich_w
Seasoned Pro Location: Havant, Hampshire Registered: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 5,412 Status: Offline |
Post #74
welshpug! wrote: its not about resistance or pressure drop, but what the air does. show the pipes to any decent engine builder and they'll cringe You are missing the point. Yes, it can be bettered. I am saying the gains from doing so are tiny on a heavily restricted setup, and from a cost-benefit perspective, it's not worth it. Hence my comment stating turning out the restrictor 0.5mm will give you more gains than even the smoothest bends, for a fraction of the cost! ________________________________________ Contact Details:rich@lynxpowerengineering.co.uk 07732 822546 |
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Posted 24th May 2016 at 14:29
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rich_w
Seasoned Pro Location: Havant, Hampshire Registered: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 5,412 Status: Offline |
Post #75
The other thing to consider is what the software has been developed for. It has been developed to work with the bends we have used (love them or hate them!), and it's relatively pointless trying to make miniscule improvements to the efficiency of the system, as the ECU won't put in any more fuel, as at WOT the injection pulse widths are fixed, with the exception of temperature compensations etc. So too much improvement to the air flow will just make it run lean.If you really want the most from it, open up the restrictor another 2mm or so, and get a custom map from Wayne, and maybe go for 280-290 BHP. You won't find 40 BHP cheaper than £420! ________________________________________ Contact Details:rich@lynxpowerengineering.co.uk 07732 822546 |
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Posted 24th May 2016 at 14:53
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