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Author Subject: Driveshaft noise pinpointing
dangti6

aka JKshooter

Location: Taunton, Somerset

Registered: 15 Jun 2006

Posts: 10,305

Status: Offline

Post #1
I've a frustrating knocking noise coming from the front of the Rallye and because nothing is physically missing or hanging in pieces I am struggling to put my finger on what exactly it is LOL

The noise is apparent when applying power. If I toddle along and drive on tiptoes it won't do it, but when you apply throttle to push on it will knock - sounds like a shuddering/thundery noise.

I've checked the subframe mounting bolts - fine.

The cat isn't knocking on the subframe.

My top engine mount appears in reasonable order. A mirror underneath shoes the stud hasn't sheared and prying it with a bar doesn't show excessive movement (IMO).

I've given the exhaust a wiggle and that's not touching the body or anything.

I initially put it down to the drivers side driveshaft - perhaps the intermediate bearing or one of the joints. Fitted an OE recon shaft - DIDN'T SOLVE IT! (I could have cried).

It's possible that I picked the wrong side. Naturally it can often sound from the drivers side as noises like they transfer quite a distance.

I don't really want to change the pass side shaft without reasonable belief that it is that.

My old Clio used to do similar and that's a common fault with those - the dog bone (rear lower engine mount) is susceptible to failure and movement causes a knock. Perhaps I could have a similar issue here - but I'm not noticing marks from contact.

My next quick and cheap attempt at fixing it will be to change the gearbox mount as the box does wobble a fair bit with a bar against it, but I'm unsure how much movement there usually is.


What techniques can I use to test the other driveshaft for faults? I've jacked up and grabbed it, moved it and tried to feel any movement in the joints but nothing shows up.

Top mounts - they appear to be the original items - would movement in the top bearing cause a knock when applying the power if it was knackered?

Throw ideas at me people. I've dumped it in the corner and I'm running out of patience with it. Driving it until such a failure becomes apparent, has crossed my mind.

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  • Posted 6th Oct 2015 at 22:49
    cully

    Seasoned Pro

    Location: Cullompton

    Registered: 12 Jun 2013

    Posts: 1,093

    Status: Offline

    Post #2
    remove the topmount and inspect the cup for cracks Wink
    stop fannying about with mirrors and get your tools out
    Posted 7th Oct 2015 at 09:31
    mocinim

    Seasoned Pro

    Location: The Darkside of bedford :)

    Registered: 09 Jan 2015

    Posts: 2,307

    Status: Offline

    Post #3
    Get someone to vid it post it will be easier to diagnose if we can hear it bud

    ________________________________________

    BLACK RALLYE - phoenix
    WHITE RALLYE - valliant

    http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com/

    https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history
    Posted 7th Oct 2015 at 10:13
    dangti6

    aka JKshooter

    Location: Taunton, Somerset

    Registered: 15 Jun 2006

    Posts: 10,305

    Status: Offline

    Post #4
    I shall hold my phone in my mouth and go for a drive.

    cully wrote:
    remove the topmount and inspect the cup for cracks Wink
    stop fannying about with mirrors and get your tools out


    I'm reluctant to disturb the mount if I'm honest - only due to the worry that if it does fall apart from the pressures of undoing it, I'll be up s**t creek.

    ________________________________________

  • Senior Test Automation Engineer for the 306GTi6 Owners Club Forum Wizard


  • Posted 7th Oct 2015 at 10:34
    welshpug!

    Capt Pedantic

    Location: Bigend, Wales.

    Registered: 27 Mar 2007

    Posts: 25,838

    Status: Offline

    Post #5
    if its f**ked, its f**ked, deal with it Razz

    ________________________________________

    need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

    Bring on the Trumpets.

    Posted 7th Oct 2015 at 10:36
    mocinim

    Seasoned Pro

    Location: The Darkside of bedford :)

    Registered: 09 Jan 2015

    Posts: 2,307

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    Post #6
    Easier if you get some gaffa tape and secure ot to your forehead Smile

    ________________________________________

    BLACK RALLYE - phoenix
    WHITE RALLYE - valliant

    http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com/

    https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history
    Posted 7th Oct 2015 at 11:32
    mocinim

    Seasoned Pro

    Location: The Darkside of bedford :)

    Registered: 09 Jan 2015

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    Post #7
    mocinim wrote:
    Easier if you get some gaffa tape and secure ot to your forehead Smile


    And then get someone to film it

    ________________________________________

    BLACK RALLYE - phoenix
    WHITE RALLYE - valliant

    http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com/

    https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history
    Posted 7th Oct 2015 at 11:36
    dangti6

    aka JKshooter

    Location: Taunton, Somerset

    Registered: 15 Jun 2006

    Posts: 10,305

    Status: Offline

    Post #8
    I have no friends though,hence the need to hold/tape the phone Sad



    Flowers

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  • Posted 7th Oct 2015 at 11:59
    RetroPug

    Seasoned Pro

    Location: Leicestershire

    Registered: 15 Jan 2013

    Posts: 2,473

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    Post #9
    Try revving it with the TB in the engine bay and seeing if it makes a knocking, if so then it's probably something mounting-related? If not, try jacking just the front up and getting someone to rev it and see if you can trace it with you underneath?

    Ie. does it knock when revving the engine only rather than driving?

    ________________________________________

    61k miles Ph.1 Diablo '6 Project Thread
    Posted 7th Oct 2015 at 12:12
    stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

    Location: Kent

    Registered: 18 Jan 2004

    Posts: 21,768

    Status: Offline

    Post #10
    welshpug! wrote:
    if its f**ked, its f**ked, deal with it Razz


    To be honest, this. Yes

    Even if the mount isn't the issue, if it breaks when you remove it, then it would have failed in the near future anyway. At least by removing it to check the mount and cradle you are eliminating them.

    ________________________________________

    "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
    Peugeot 306 GTi-6
    2000 (X), Moonstone Love
    Posted 9th Oct 2015 at 12:04
    dangti6

    aka JKshooter

    Location: Taunton, Somerset

    Registered: 15 Jun 2006

    Posts: 10,305

    Status: Offline

    Post #11
    RetroPug wrote:
    Try revving it with the TB in the engine bay and seeing if it makes a knocking, if so then it's probably something mounting-related?
    Ie. does it knock when revving the engine only rather than driving?


    Embarrassingly, I hadn't actually thought of revving it and looking for movement.

    I did that, and the top engine mount rubber moves much more than I'd expect it to so I'll order a new'un and inspect the cradle.

    Do any PSA vehicles have an 'uprated' rubber version that people know of? Perhaps a diesel engine. I've found a couple of differing part numbers for 306 mounts.

    ________________________________________

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  • Posted 9th Oct 2015 at 13:07
    welshpug!

    Capt Pedantic

    Location: Bigend, Wales.

    Registered: 27 Mar 2007

    Posts: 25,838

    Status: Offline

    Post #12
    would imagine that the 6/rallye has the toughest variant anyway.

    ________________________________________

    need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

    Bring on the Trumpets.

    Posted 9th Oct 2015 at 17:21
    stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

    Location: Kent

    Registered: 18 Jan 2004

    Posts: 21,768

    Status: Offline

    Post #13
    I use a Group N top mount which is hard rubber and I have also chocked the mount to remove movement.

    I believe I purchased it from Baker BM. Yes

    ________________________________________

    "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
    Peugeot 306 GTi-6
    2000 (X), Moonstone Love
    Posted 10th Oct 2015 at 00:00
    mocinim

    Seasoned Pro

    Location: The Darkside of bedford :)

    Registered: 09 Jan 2015

    Posts: 2,307

    Status: Offline

    Post #14
    stan_306gti6 wrote:
    I use a Group N top mount which is hard rubber and I have also chocked the mount to remove movement.

    I believe I purchased it from Baker BM. Yes


    Does this put additional vibration through the car

    ________________________________________

    BLACK RALLYE - phoenix
    WHITE RALLYE - valliant

    http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com/

    https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history
    Posted 10th Oct 2015 at 00:41
    welshpug!

    Capt Pedantic

    Location: Bigend, Wales.

    Registered: 27 Mar 2007

    Posts: 25,838

    Status: Offline

    Post #15
    yup.

    ________________________________________

    need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

    Bring on the Trumpets.

    Posted 10th Oct 2015 at 06:48
    stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

    Location: Kent

    Registered: 18 Jan 2004

    Posts: 21,768

    Status: Offline

    Post #16
    mocinim wrote:
    stan_306gti6 wrote:
    I use a Group N top mount which is hard rubber and I have also chocked the mount to remove movement.

    I believe I purchased it from Baker BM. Yes


    Does this put additional vibration through the car


    You would think so, but it actually doesn't. I also have a Group N gearbox mount too which is great.
    However, I have a Group A (solid metal) bottom engine mount and that most definitely does add vibration, especially through the dashboard. Yes

    I can tell you though, my engine doesn't rock at all. Cool

    ________________________________________

    "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
    Peugeot 306 GTi-6
    2000 (X), Moonstone Love
    Posted 10th Oct 2015 at 08:18
    RetroPug

    Seasoned Pro

    Location: Leicestershire

    Registered: 15 Jan 2013

    Posts: 2,473

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    Post #17
    Neither does mine when I don't drive it. Laugh my ass off

    ________________________________________

    61k miles Ph.1 Diablo '6 Project Thread
    Posted 13th Oct 2015 at 12:12
    welshpug!

    Capt Pedantic

    Location: Bigend, Wales.

    Registered: 27 Mar 2007

    Posts: 25,838

    Status: Offline

    Post #18
    ROFL.

    ________________________________________

    need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

    Bring on the Trumpets.

    Posted 13th Oct 2015 at 12:46
    mellowr1

    Senior User

    Location: Maidstone

    Registered: 12 Jun 2012

    Posts: 995

    Status: Offline

    Post #19
    RetroPug wrote:
    Neither does mine when I don't drive it. Laugh my ass off



    Thumbs up LOL
    Posted 13th Oct 2015 at 13:09
    barrym

    Senior User

    Location: Westcliff-on-sea

    Registered: 26 Jun 2014

    Posts: 502

    Status: Offline

    Post #20
    mocinim wrote:
    stan_306gti6 wrote:
    I use a Group N top mount which is hard rubber and I have also chocked the mount to remove movement.

    I believe I purchased it from Baker BM. Yes


    Does this put additional vibration through the car



    Fitted my BakerBM top engine mount and buffer yesterday and can confirm it definately does add noise, vibration and harshness. It's not terrible but I am still debating whether to keep it or not.

    The car now vibrates even at tickover, small inconsequential noises like the power steering pump are now much more evident, bits of interior trim now rattle at certain revs and the car booms much more at speed. All from two bits of rubber.

    On the plus side driveline shunt has dramatically improved

    ________________________________________

    China D Turbo HDi daily charger
    Black Rallye occassional toy
    Posted 13th Oct 2015 at 16:56
    mocinim

    Seasoned Pro

    Location: The Darkside of bedford :)

    Registered: 09 Jan 2015

    Posts: 2,307

    Status: Offline

    Post #21
    Mine has a uprated bottom mount when originally fitted caused all kinds of vibrations , one year in and its calmed right down fairly smooth again

    ________________________________________

    BLACK RALLYE - phoenix
    WHITE RALLYE - valliant

    http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com/

    https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history
    Posted 17th Oct 2015 at 23:17
    dangti6

    aka JKshooter

    Location: Taunton, Somerset

    Registered: 15 Jun 2006

    Posts: 10,305

    Status: Offline

    Post #22
    I don't intend to bother with uprated mounts to be fair. I don't see the benefits for what I want from this car.

    Which reminds me I must get on with this. I did bung some rubber between the buffer and cradle and that solved it for the test run I performed afterwards. Then the next time I used the car it made the knock again - despite the rubber not moving/falling out. I've ordered a Febi mount so will swap it over and pack it out properly and cross my fingers/break it for parts if all else fails.

    ________________________________________

  • Senior Test Automation Engineer for the 306GTi6 Owners Club Forum Wizard


  • Posted 18th Oct 2015 at 11:13
    cully

    Seasoned Pro

    Location: Cullompton

    Registered: 12 Jun 2013

    Posts: 1,093

    Status: Offline

    Post #23
    dangti6 wrote:
    break it for parts if all else fails.


    Posted 18th Oct 2015 at 12:27
    Cherry Buell

    Newbie

    Location: Cork

    Registered: 06 Mar 2015

    Posts: 33

    Status: Offline

    Post #24
    Did you ever get to the bottom of this??
    Posted 3rd Feb 2016 at 02:32
    mocinim

    Seasoned Pro

    Location: The Darkside of bedford :)

    Registered: 09 Jan 2015

    Posts: 2,307

    Status: Offline

    Post #25
    Have exactly the same on my rallye now suspecting the top engine mount
    As have recently pulled everything else off and renewed or replaced
    The only other possibility could be the steering column but can't see how will buy new mounts and fit then let you know suspect the cup is rotten Sad

    ________________________________________

    BLACK RALLYE - phoenix
    WHITE RALLYE - valliant

    http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com/

    https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history
    Posted 3rd Feb 2016 at 08:10

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