Post #76
I just don't want to buy a new one change the pulley over to then find it hasn't fixed either of my faults
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| Author | Subject: 044 pump killing engine |
 pugheaven
Seasoned Pro  Location: Fareham Registered: 17 Dec 2006 Posts: 4,602 Status: Offline |
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 Posted 22nd Mar 2015 at 00:28
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bigbadbowen
Seasoned Pro  Location: Winchester Registered: 21 Nov 2003 Posts: 13,753 Status: Offline |
Post #77
volt meter it then ? Any thing less than 14.6 means alt is shiiiiiiite |
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Posted 22nd Mar 2015 at 00:33
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pugheaven
Seasoned Pro Location: Fareham Registered: 17 Dec 2006 Posts: 4,602 Status: Offline |
Post #78
will do! |
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Posted 22nd Mar 2015 at 00:35
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bigbadbowen
Seasoned Pro Location: Winchester Registered: 21 Nov 2003 Posts: 13,753 Status: Offline |
Post #79
Might explain wipers as well ? |
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Posted 22nd Mar 2015 at 00:38
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pugheaven
Seasoned Pro Location: Fareham Registered: 17 Dec 2006 Posts: 4,602 Status: Offline |
Post #80
maybe but I doubt it as I had the same fault with the grey car when I changed from phase 1-2/3 lol just didn't care with that car |
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Posted 22nd Mar 2015 at 00:40
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bigbadbowen
Seasoned Pro Location: Winchester Registered: 21 Nov 2003 Posts: 13,753 Status: Offline |
Post #81
My dogey 205 alt only ran out 11-12 volts and didn't light up the battery light on ignition or running |
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Posted 22nd Mar 2015 at 00:43
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pete_rallye
Seasoned Pro  Location: Yorkshire Registered: 12 Dec 2002 Posts: 5,253 Status: Offline |
Post #82
Before you swap the alternator, download the DTASwin software and connect to the ecu. You will be able to see a trace of battery voltage. You could also wire in the lambda to get a trace from that. Might be worth checking the map is the same as it was before? Also try revving it a touch when you connect the hp pump, if it is a fuel/air mix problem then the more air you can get into it the better! Has the throttle pot been moved at all? Be worth checking that's still set up correctly in the ecu also. ________________________________________ Oulton Park in a BTCC 306 vid 1Oulton Park in a BTCC 306 vid 2 Lap of the 'ring |
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Posted 22nd Mar 2015 at 07:29
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Niall
Seasoned Pro  Location: Epsom Registered: 06 Jun 2012 Posts: 1,941 Status: Offline |
Post #83
bigbadbowen wrote: volt meter it then ? Any thing less than 14.6 means alt is shiiiiiiite Not quite true I'm afraid. a 306 alternator is not a smart charging alternator so will always put out a fixed voltage of about 14.4 (what it should be) to probably a maximum of 14.6 however due to other bits in the circuit having quite a significant power draw (such as a discharged battery), if you just put your meter across the battery terminals with it running you could see as low as 12.5-13v. Doesn't mean its had it! |
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Posted 22nd Mar 2015 at 09:13
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cully
Seasoned Pro  Location: Cullompton Registered: 12 Jun 2013 Posts: 1,093 Status: Offline |
Post #84
alternators do go faulty and wont put on the bat light i had one recently on a 206check it with a volt meter on the battery terminals 12.2-12.5v would be a good charged battery with the car off anywhere above 13.8v would be good charging with the engine running |
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Posted 22nd Mar 2015 at 09:50
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pugheaven
Seasoned Pro Location: Fareham Registered: 17 Dec 2006 Posts: 4,602 Status: Offline |
Post #85
I'm pretty crap when it comes to electrics! With the car off the battery was a reading 12.75v and the same once running! Its a pain as to get the alternator out iv got to remove the charger which means taking the front end off with rad and intercooler  |
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Posted 22nd Mar 2015 at 09:57
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bigbadbowen
Seasoned Pro Location: Winchester Registered: 21 Nov 2003 Posts: 13,753 Status: Offline |
Post #86
Run the car with everything on ? Lights heater rear window de mister etc ? Then check voltage ? I'm sure my 6 runs 14v when running I'll go check ? |
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Posted 22nd Mar 2015 at 10:03
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bigbadbowen
Seasoned Pro Location: Winchester Registered: 21 Nov 2003 Posts: 13,753 Status: Offline |
Post #87
You have plugged the dash light in on the alt ? |
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Posted 22nd Mar 2015 at 10:04
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pugheaven
Seasoned Pro Location: Fareham Registered: 17 Dec 2006 Posts: 4,602 Status: Offline |
Post #88
Is it the little wire on its own on the alternator?? If so yes! The engine sounds time a bag of nails so really don't want to start it again |
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Posted 22nd Mar 2015 at 10:24
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pugheaven
Seasoned Pro Location: Fareham Registered: 17 Dec 2006 Posts: 4,602 Status: Offline |
Post #89
To illuminate the alternator being the reason the battery light doesn't come on could I just extant that one wire to another cars alternator or just a battery?? |
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Posted 22nd Mar 2015 at 12:40
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rich_w
Seasoned Pro  Location: Havant, Hampshire Registered: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 5,412 Status: Offline |
Post #90
Olli,I think the issue could well be electrical - I'm fairly sure your plumbing is correct. I think the issue isn't over fuelling when the pump comes on, it died too quickly to be that - for example when I was holding it at a fast idle, we connected the Bosch pump and it died immediately. If the Bosch pump was causing it to over fuel, it would cough and splutter then die - it wouldn't be so sudden. Best thing to do is to establish whether the alternator is working or not - and also I don't know if the race battery is up to the job, as regardless of what the alternator is doing, it should still start. All of the wiring needs to be checked, particularly earthing. When I get back I'll do some checking on SWin to see what's happening. Having said that, I'm really puzzled as to why it's running with only the in tank pump. It shouldn't do this. At least the cars fitted with my swirl pot don't run without the Bosch - and I don't see why yours would be any different. In the mean time, try and avoid running it. You at least shouldn't run it until the wide band is working. The DTA is configured to trim fuel based on the 0-5v input from the wide band, so this is pretty important. If you can be patient, maybe wait until I'm back - first thing is to diagnose with SWin - this may well identify the issue. Rich ________________________________________ Contact Details:rich@lynxpowerengineering.co.uk 07732 822546 |
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Posted 22nd Mar 2015 at 13:33
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bigbadbowen
Seasoned Pro Location: Winchester Registered: 21 Nov 2003 Posts: 13,753 Status: Offline |
Post #91
pugheaven wrote: To illuminate the alternator being the reason the battery light doesn't come on could I just extant that one wire to another cars alternator or just a battery?? I don't think so bud it's all part of a circuit ? |
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Posted 22nd Mar 2015 at 13:40
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pugheaven
Seasoned Pro Location: Fareham Registered: 17 Dec 2006 Posts: 4,602 Status: Offline |
Post #92
Thanks Rich, I think it's best I leave it as I dont have a clue with electrics! Iv got other things to get on with on the car so not that a big deal atm, just hope I dont have to move out before we get the car running! Have fun on holiday bud and I'll see you when your back  Thanks for your help the other day it was appreciated  |
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Posted 22nd Mar 2015 at 13:49
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rallyeash
Seasoned Pro  Location: Devizes Registered: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 4,424 Status: Offline |
Post #93
Twangy wrote: fuel line should return to swirl pot and as soon as that's full system is primed ,no reason then to return to main tank Yes the tank will explode! You need a return to swirl and a return to tank from swirl because it's unvented. ________________________________________ 230 hp 2.1 16v XU 205 rallye on jenveys Project thread here309 3dr K20 Type R |
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Posted 23rd Mar 2015 at 10:21
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic  Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,838 Status: Offline |
Post #94
rich_w wrote: Having said that, I'm really puzzled as to why it's running with only the in tank pump. It shouldn't do this. I can't see why ever not if it can provide enough flow and pump 5 bar (like feck would I want fuel running around my car at 5 bar though!) ________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 23rd Mar 2015 at 10:42
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rich_w
Seasoned Pro Location: Havant, Hampshire Registered: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 5,412 Status: Offline |
Post #95
Because the in tank pump should only generate a negligible fuel pressure at the rail - it's only filling the swirl pot - so the fuel pressure achieved would be equal to the back pressure from the swirl pot to the tank. This should be minimal - only a few PSI.Olli needs to check for back pressure on the return from the swirl pot to the tank, and rail return to swirl pot. Something isn't right - I could rev it up on the in tank pump only too - it want as if it was just idling. 5 BAR is necessary to get enough fuel in there, and get the best possible atomisation. Some OEM performance cars run this sort of fuel pressure - such as M3. Fuel pressure will hit nearly 7 BAR at peak boost  ________________________________________ Contact Details:rich@lynxpowerengineering.co.uk 07732 822546 |
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Posted 23rd Mar 2015 at 11:03
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,838 Status: Offline |
Post #96
fair enough.my thinking with the std pump is that it has enough flow and pressure to fill the pot and push on jnto the rail, as theres no restriction. that said, the pot has a return to the tank, so if that is flowing ok then there shouldn't be any rail pressure. got my head around it now  ________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 23rd Mar 2015 at 12:33
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rich_w
Seasoned Pro Location: Havant, Hampshire Registered: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 5,412 Status: Offline |
Post #97
Yeah it doesn't make sense does it... will have to look into it when I get back.Other HBs won't start with only the in tank pump - they try to catch bit won't run. ________________________________________ Contact Details:rich@lynxpowerengineering.co.uk 07732 822546 |
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Posted 23rd Mar 2015 at 12:53
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bigbadbowen
Seasoned Pro Location: Winchester Registered: 21 Nov 2003 Posts: 13,753 Status: Offline |
Post #98
Swirl pot got hosed on incorrectly me thinks |
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Posted 23rd Mar 2015 at 13:02
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,838 Status: Offline |
Post #99
doesnt matter really which way the hoses are connected, once its full of fuel the feed and return can come from anywhere, though obviously you need the engine feed from the lowest point and tank return from the top.________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 23rd Mar 2015 at 13:04
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pugheaven
Seasoned Pro Location: Fareham Registered: 17 Dec 2006 Posts: 4,602 Status: Offline |
Post #100
Maybe the return to tank is blocked but I'm sure me and rich checked that and it was fine! Iv just order a AN6 1/8npt take off and fuel pressure gauge so should be able to see what's going on fuel wise when Rich gets back |
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Posted 23rd Mar 2015 at 14:23
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