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230 hp 2.1 16v XU 205 rallye on jenveys Project thread here309 3dr K20 Type R
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Author | Subject: average low boost RR result |
rallyeash
Seasoned Pro Location: Devizes Registered: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 4,424 Status: Offline |
Post #26
As a side note my best lap around castle Combe is 1.18, spiky with his sc'd 205 track car is 1.19. Mine also now has 6 pot brakes as a 1.18 was with standard gti6 calipers which couldn't take it after several laps and braking is much improved when I went to oulton in November. Looking forward to getting out at Combe this year so see if I can lap in 1.17. ________________________________________ 230 hp 2.1 16v XU 205 rallye on jenveys Project thread here309 3dr K20 Type R |
Posted 12th Jan 2014 at 15:45
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gman
Seasoned Pro Location: Didcot Registered: 25 Oct 2007 Posts: 1,471 Status: Offline |
Post #27
dangti6 wrote: No idea on a 0-60 time as I've not measured it but I can give a Rotrex'd CTR a good run for it's money Bearing in mind mine is purely a ~£1500 bolt on and map job. Standard cams even. Are you sure he was actually trying?? I suspect yours won't be pushing much more than 190bhp, so really can't see how it could compare with something fairly light with 300bhp ________________________________________ 1992 Onyx Black 205 GTI-62005 Honda S2000 (Sold) 2002 Audi S3 (Sold) 2005 Clio 182 Trophy (sold) |
Posted 12th Jan 2014 at 15:56
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rallyeash
Seasoned Pro Location: Devizes Registered: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 4,424 Status: Offline |
Post #28
Personally if I was you I'd not spend the 3-4k that a lynx setup will cost and buy that 92mm crank forsale on here currently, along with some pistons/rods to suit the some mild road cams and a set of used jenveys. Plenty of NA torque, not that much less power than a lbsc, lighter, less complicated and more exciting drive! You'll also have a completely rebuild engine too. ________________________________________ 230 hp 2.1 16v XU 205 rallye on jenveys Project thread here309 3dr K20 Type R |
Posted 12th Jan 2014 at 16:18
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dangti6
aka JKshooter Location: Taunton, Somerset Registered: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 10,305 Status: Offline |
Post #29
gman wrote: dangti6 wrote: No idea on a 0-60 time as I've not measured it but I can give a Rotrex'd CTR a good run for it's money Bearing in mind mine is purely a ~£1500 bolt on and map job. Standard cams even. Are you sure he was actually trying?? I suspect yours won't be pushing much more than 190bhp, so really can't see how it could compare with something fairly light with 300bhp As him - you obviously know the bloke It's not 300bhp. I'm sure he said 260. ________________________________________ |
Posted 12th Jan 2014 at 16:20
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gman
Seasoned Pro Location: Didcot Registered: 25 Oct 2007 Posts: 1,471 Status: Offline |
Post #30
dangti6 wrote: gman wrote: dangti6 wrote: No idea on a 0-60 time as I've not measured it but I can give a Rotrex'd CTR a good run for it's money Bearing in mind mine is purely a ~£1500 bolt on and map job. Standard cams even. Are you sure he was actually trying?? I suspect yours won't be pushing much more than 190bhp, so really can't see how it could compare with something fairly light with 300bhp As him - you obviously know the bloke It's not 300bhp. I'm sure he said 260. Sorry, didn't mean that to sound so abrupt! I really didn't think that straight bodies with no cams gave huge increases, certainly not enough to challenge a charged civic, as those Jackson racing kits are supposed to work very well. I will certainly not be spending 3-4k on the sc kit! I have sourced a low mileage example for 1500, so I should have it fitted with a nice 2.5" exhaust for 2k. I did initially want to go down the ITB route, but my budget is 2k and I want 220bhp if going NA to sway me away from going SC. My other problem is that finding a head that hasn't been skimmed is becoming difficult and therefore pocketing pistons is a must, as my engine has had a head gasket done at some point. I'm not capable of rebuilding the engine myself , so this would simply add to the cost. I do however have some mechanically handy friends though, so what would 2k get me of going for used parts? Cheers ________________________________________ 1992 Onyx Black 205 GTI-62005 Honda S2000 (Sold) 2002 Audi S3 (Sold) 2005 Clio 182 Trophy (sold) |
Posted 12th Jan 2014 at 17:35
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allye
Regular Location: Devizes Registered: 05 May 2011 Posts: 204 Status: Offline |
Post #31
Ash, naturally aspirated till he dies! 306gti6 forum, unique ability to turn every thread into sc vs na! Why does the rotrex setup give bugger all torque? ________________________________________ 205 Van SC'd GTI6 - because why not309 Goodwood V6 - sold 205 Rallye GTI6 - Bent |
Posted 13th Jan 2014 at 04:19
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stan_306gti6
Forum Admin Location: Kent Registered: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 21,768 Status: Offline |
Post #32
I've got 317.5ft/lbs, how much torque do you want?I would imagine it has a lot to do with the way the mapping is set up and the fact the Rotrex unit takes some time to spool up. ________________________________________ "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"Peugeot 306 GTi-6 2000 (X), Moonstone |
Posted 13th Jan 2014 at 07:33
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allye
Regular Location: Devizes Registered: 05 May 2011 Posts: 204 Status: Offline |
Post #33
In relation to "454.1bhp" it just doesn't seem very much?I don't understand when turbos make great shovel loads of it? ________________________________________ 205 Van SC'd GTI6 - because why not309 Goodwood V6 - sold 205 Rallye GTI6 - Bent |
Posted 13th Jan 2014 at 07:42
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dangti6
aka JKshooter Location: Taunton, Somerset Registered: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 10,305 Status: Offline |
Post #34
gman wrote: dangti6 wrote: gman wrote: dangti6 wrote: No idea on a 0-60 time as I've not measured it but I can give a Rotrex'd CTR a good run for it's money Bearing in mind mine is purely a ~£1500 bolt on and map job. Standard cams even. Are you sure he was actually trying?? I suspect yours won't be pushing much more than 190bhp, so really can't see how it could compare with something fairly light with 300bhp As him - you obviously know the bloke It's not 300bhp. I'm sure he said 260. Sorry, didn't mean that to sound so abrupt! I really didn't think that straight bodies with no cams gave huge increases, certainly not enough to challenge a charged civic, as those Jackson racing kits are supposed to work very well. I will certainly not be spending 3-4k on the sc kit! I have sourced a low mileage example for 1500, so I should have it fitted with a nice 2.5" exhaust for 2k. No offence taken, I know what you mean. When mapped on rollers which are purely used for that purpose and not calibrated it was indicating 175 at the wheels which converts to around 200 at the fly I believe. As mentioned - take those with a pinch of salt. It certainly feels much much much more raw, aggressive and I'd almost say it was enough for road use. I was chasing the SC'd Civic in areas where it couldn't really stretch it's legs. Short twisty sections probably only to around 60mph. I was on his arse and when he stopped he was shocked. His brother actually has a standard one and when pulling to a carriageway I caught him up and actually flew past him to the point when I looked over I had gone before I could see his facial expression. I genuinely didn't think he was 'playing'. He confirmed he was actually giving it his best shot. Again - had we gone to licence loosing speeds he'd have carried on. It's not been on the road enough to really compare it to be honest I'm going to fit the various piles of items I've been collecting to 'finish' it in April time and then I'll be taking it back to Combe to see what difference I can see when really stretching it's legs. If I don't manage that I'll break it as I hardly used it last year and there's no point having it if I don't . ________________________________________ |
Posted 13th Jan 2014 at 08:23
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spiky
Seasoned Pro Location: Cardiff Registered: 13 Oct 2006 Posts: 2,310 Status: Offline |
Post #35
sorry, but my Tb'd car was no where near my rotrex carcheck out that vid, and thats without launching http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X14UggbNw5U ________________________________________ Do you need a 205 > 306 gti6 plug and go engine loom? PM METORQUES for all your braided fuel line needs MY YouTube Videos' SUPERCHARGED 205 GTI6.... are you Fooking nuts!.... ummmm YIP 268+BHP and 860kg = FUN |
Posted 13th Jan 2014 at 08:45
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spiky
Seasoned Pro Location: Cardiff Registered: 13 Oct 2006 Posts: 2,310 Status: Offline |
Post #36
rallyeash wrote: As a side note my best lap around castle Combe is 1.18, spiky with his sc'd 205 track car is 1.19. Mine also now has 6 pot brakes as a 1.18 was with standard gti6 calipers which couldn't take it after several laps and braking is much improved when I went to oulton in November. Looking forward to getting out at Combe this year so see if I can lap in 1.17. hi ash, have you got any vids of your 1:18 laps? ________________________________________ Do you need a 205 > 306 gti6 plug and go engine loom? PM METORQUES for all your braided fuel line needs MY YouTube Videos' SUPERCHARGED 205 GTI6.... are you Fooking nuts!.... ummmm YIP 268+BHP and 860kg = FUN |
Posted 13th Jan 2014 at 08:47
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rallyeash
Seasoned Pro Location: Devizes Registered: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 4,424 Status: Offline |
Post #37
Yes plenty, I'll try dig some up, there videos of someone holding a camera at quarry for a session at an action day and you can work out the lap time by the time recorded. Will have my go pro on for Combe next time so should be even better. ________________________________________ 230 hp 2.1 16v XU 205 rallye on jenveys Project thread here309 3dr K20 Type R |
Posted 13th Jan 2014 at 08:56
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spiky
Seasoned Pro Location: Cardiff Registered: 13 Oct 2006 Posts: 2,310 Status: Offline |
Post #38
cool, wouldnt mind a look ________________________________________ Do you need a 205 > 306 gti6 plug and go engine loom? PM METORQUES for all your braided fuel line needs MY YouTube Videos' SUPERCHARGED 205 GTI6.... are you Fooking nuts!.... ummmm YIP 268+BHP and 860kg = FUN |
Posted 13th Jan 2014 at 09:01
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rallyeash
Seasoned Pro Location: Devizes Registered: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 4,424 Status: Offline |
Post #39
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBEntjReWIQ not a very exciting video and theres plenty of traffic but still manage a 1.18 here... come past at 1.57 and again at 3.15. timed/paused at bang on centre of quarry you can see the cars I had to come past between laps so not the clearest of laps.... ________________________________________ 230 hp 2.1 16v XU 205 rallye on jenveys Project thread here309 3dr K20 Type R |
Posted 13th Jan 2014 at 09:10
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superchargedblack1997gti6
Seasoned Pro Location: guildford Registered: 15 Aug 2009 Posts: 2,376 Status: Offline |
Post #40
I personally would say that second may be down to you're suspension and the fact you're cage is a lot stiffer Ash bieng a weldin rather than bolt in! N/a vs supercharger I like both and they both have plus points and - points.________________________________________ Super high boost Completed, destroyer of gearboxes and 160mph club |
Posted 13th Jan 2014 at 09:11
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rallyeash
Seasoned Pro Location: Devizes Registered: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 4,424 Status: Offline |
Post #41
Thought about a v6 Gman? Cheapest way to get the HP and torque. ________________________________________ 230 hp 2.1 16v XU 205 rallye on jenveys Project thread here309 3dr K20 Type R |
Posted 13th Jan 2014 at 09:21
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armzsc6
Seasoned Pro Location: Crowborough Registered: 22 Mar 2008 Posts: 3,445 Status: Offline |
Post #42
V6 in the front of a 205? Utterly useless handling and under steer..... ________________________________________ Black power baby! SUUUUUPERCHARGEDSeat Leon FR TDI 190BHP 300lbft daily gti-6 killer :p 12x 306's owned so far Cambelts, clutches, service work carried out on All makes and models, Peugeot Citroen / mitsubishi specialist. Pug planet / Citroen Lexia diagnostics / code reads available. |
Posted 13th Jan 2014 at 10:33
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superchargedblack1997gti6
Seasoned Pro Location: guildford Registered: 15 Aug 2009 Posts: 2,376 Status: Offline |
Post #43
If I see a cheap 306 v6 I'd be tempted just to see what the fuss is about.________________________________________ Super high boost Completed, destroyer of gearboxes and 160mph club |
Posted 13th Jan 2014 at 10:37
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rallyeash
Seasoned Pro Location: Devizes Registered: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 4,424 Status: Offline |
Post #44
Well yes and no. It's not really my cup of tea as for me the 205 is about a light nimble hatch which isn't front heavy. In reality I don't think there *that* much heavier than your RS engine. Bit of suspension adjustment, battery to the boot etc and your probably not to far away. Plus torque and hp out of the box! Half the price too. Just looked and a V6 engine is about 170 versus a RS engine at 145 ________________________________________ 230 hp 2.1 16v XU 205 rallye on jenveys Project thread here309 3dr K20 Type R |
Posted 13th Jan 2014 at 10:38
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allye
Regular Location: Devizes Registered: 05 May 2011 Posts: 204 Status: Offline |
Post #45
yep! Ash is correct, the ali block V6 isn't far off the 6 engine, the gear box weighs more too though.It is irritating when people say they handle like crap, please, do not breed and be quiet. ________________________________________ 205 Van SC'd GTI6 - because why not309 Goodwood V6 - sold 205 Rallye GTI6 - Bent |
Posted 13th Jan 2014 at 10:43
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superchargedblack1997gti6
Seasoned Pro Location: guildford Registered: 15 Aug 2009 Posts: 2,376 Status: Offline |
Post #46
Allye how much work is it to fit a v6 into a 205? owned a gti6 205 just thought might be good for a giggle to fit a v6 in one at some point?________________________________________ Super high boost Completed, destroyer of gearboxes and 160mph club |
Posted 13th Jan 2014 at 10:58
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allye
Regular Location: Devizes Registered: 05 May 2011 Posts: 204 Status: Offline |
Post #47
Depends on yourself really. Parts that need to be fabricated is the sub frame to clear the exhaust, the actual exhaust, shorted 406 drive shafts, you need to do some cutting to the front area in a 205, not a problem in a 309 though, I'm told the wiring isn't a huge issue with the more simple D8, radiator obviously needs to be mounted some how, gear lever/cable set up fitted, either a cable/hydraulic clutch or a complete hydraulic set up. Fair bit of work! But it sounds utterly fantastic, and now I have the perfect basis to fit my Clio V6 255 engine.Oh, and the top engine mount is a custom job, a chap had a batch of billet ones made up but mine is fabricated. ________________________________________ 205 Van SC'd GTI6 - because why not309 Goodwood V6 - sold 205 Rallye GTI6 - Bent |
Posted 13th Jan 2014 at 11:53
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gman
Seasoned Pro Location: Didcot Registered: 25 Oct 2007 Posts: 1,471 Status: Offline |
Post #48
rallyeash wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBEntjReWIQ not a very exciting video and theres plenty of traffic but still manage a 1.18 here... come past at 1.57 and again at 3.15. timed/paused at bang on centre of quarry you can see the cars I had to come past between laps so not the clearest of laps.... Jeez, there's probably fewer cars going round the M25 than that circuit! Any track day organised at coombe just looks like a free for all - you're a brave man Ash! ________________________________________ 1992 Onyx Black 205 GTI-62005 Honda S2000 (Sold) 2002 Audi S3 (Sold) 2005 Clio 182 Trophy (sold) |
Posted 13th Jan 2014 at 14:50
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matty_rallye
Senior User Location: Devizes Registered: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 966 Status: Offline |
Post #49
Proper trackdays are fine, action days are a little suicidal these days!________________________________________ 2.1 16v 306 Rallye. |
Posted 13th Jan 2014 at 16:13
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doof
Regular Location: nottingham Registered: 24 Nov 2007 Posts: 231 Status: Offline |
Post #50
stan_306gti6 wrote: gman wrote: I was under the impression that the SC kit still has the same throttle response as the standard 6 engine, which is still very good. You would be correct. I think this is only actually true if you have a high boost setup, Stan. The highboost setup retains the throttle response because the throttle is kept just next to the plenum. The low boost setup definitely loses throttle response because the throttle plate is several meters after the inlet plenum, hence some cars stalling etc. You learn to live with it but the response is definitely much slower. |
Posted 13th Jan 2014 at 17:07
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