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Author Subject: Bedding in?
Niall

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Post #1
Right I'm going to be finished building my new engine in the next week or so but have come to a bit of a stop as to ideas to how to bed it in.
The original idea was that i would build it up, drop it in with the charger all bolted up and take it straight to be mapped but obviously mapping is going to put a fair load on the engine. Next idea is that i put the engine in in the next few weeks, run it in properly until February then bolt the charger up and take it for mapping on a nicely bedded in engine but what i was thinking is, is it a good idea to subject what is basically a brand new engine to boost when it was never designed to do so in the first place?

What are your thoughts on it? I want to give the engine the best possible chance and have the option to bolt it in now or later.
Posted 9th Nov 2013 at 21:08
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bigbadbowen

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Post #2
Need to do at least 1000 miles at no more than 3 grand revs wise to bed the bottom end in or you could shag the rings and shells

Also do a few oil changes at 500 mile intervals !
Posted 9th Nov 2013 at 21:16
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Niall

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Post #3
Yeah will be doing the oil changes. That was my worry tbh. I was going to drive the car to mapping (about 50 miles) on a base map carefully but that is no where near enough to bed anything in.
Posted 9th Nov 2013 at 21:20
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bigbadbowen

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Post #4
I'd run it in standard form for at least 1000 miles before charging it
Posted 9th Nov 2013 at 21:43
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allanallen

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Post #5
bigbadbowen wrote:
Need to do at least 1000 miles at no more than 3 grand revs wise to bed the bottom end in or you could shag the rings and shells

Also do a few oil changes at 500 mile intervals !


This is bulls**t IMO,does much more damage than good. rings will be bedded in within 20miles if done properly ,Bearings don't bed in as they run in a film of oil.
Bed the rings in with s**t mineral oil in. Drop and replace the oil with semi then give it death.

I wouldn't be driving it 50 miles on a base map, have a chat with the mapper and see if you can bed it in on the dyno, mr schofield did this on one of my engines. Much safer.

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Posted 9th Nov 2013 at 21:43
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allanallen

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Post #6
bigbadbowen wrote:
I'd run it in standard form for at least 1000 miles before charging it


??? Why?

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Posted 9th Nov 2013 at 21:45
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pete_rallye

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Post #7
You can buy bedding in oil which is basically really thin oil. Its high load rather than high revs that does the damage when bedding in, keep it light on the throttle but don't worry about revs.

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Posted 9th Nov 2013 at 21:47
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allanallen

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Post #8
pete_rallye wrote:
You can buy bedding in oil which is basically really thin oil. Its high load rather than high revs that does the damage when bedding in, keep it light on the throttle but don't worry about revs.


Agreed, however It's important to load the engine a little to bed the rings in, obviously no short shifting and driving it like a diesel though! Bit of load accelerating then let it coast down in gear, repeat....

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Posted 9th Nov 2013 at 21:50
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Niall

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Post #9
So i don't know much about mapping or even rolling roads tbh. Am i correct in thinking that when the car is on the RR, its not really under any load as its not moving the weight of the car? If so and if high revs aren't an issue then would it be ok with 4-5 hours of mapping when its virtually new?
Posted 9th Nov 2013 at 21:53
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Niall

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Post #10
allanallen wrote:
pete_rallye wrote:
You can buy bedding in oil which is basically really thin oil. Its high load rather than high revs that does the damage when bedding in, keep it light on the throttle but don't worry about revs.


Agreed, however It's important to load the engine a little to bed the rings in, obviously no short shifting and driving it like a diesel though! Bit of load accelerating then let it coast down in gear, repeat....


This is how i bedded in my 1.8 and it seemed to respond to it very well but it was a standard engine.
Posted 9th Nov 2013 at 21:53
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pete_rallye

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Post #11
Load is planting the throttle to the floor. If you sit there on an unbraked rolling road then the load won't be as much as if you are driving on the road, but if the rolling road is braked, which I'm fairly certain it will be, you can create load.

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Posted 9th Nov 2013 at 22:01
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eddy_gti6

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Post #12
With allan and pete here. If your engine is going to break its most likely to do so in the 1st 100 mile or so. Just give it a good drive out, as said above there is only the rings that need bedding in what dont take long. Once you have put around 100 mile on the engine with the mineral oil then change it along with your filter for some decent stuff and away you go Cool

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Posted 9th Nov 2013 at 23:14
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stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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Post #13
One thing of importance to note is you need to use spurts of WOT when bedding in.

The reason for this is it allows a lot of air into the cylinders which forces the rings outwards towards the bores and allows correct bedding and sealing for the best possible power and life of the engine. Yes

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Posted 10th Nov 2013 at 00:40
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jeffers Forum Admin

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Post #14
I've researched this subject myself recently for running in my track engine, and the word seems to be its more detrimental to Pootle around for a thousand miles basically because the rings don't bed in properly and the bores glaze up creating problems further down the line. The more modern approach is to get it loaded up and get the rings working as Stan says spurts of WOT and slow the car down using the engine too. Building up slowly over an hour or two until you can rev it hard for long periods. The biggest myth is running in the bearings, the bearings run with a pressurised film of oil on them therefore don't require running in. Obviously still change the oil regularly but personally I'd do it straight after bedding in then a few times over the first 1000 miles. Just my 2p's worth! Thumbs up

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Posted 10th Nov 2013 at 12:44
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stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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Post #15
Yep, agree with Jeffers on the oil changes.

Oil should ideally be changed at 50 miles, then 500, then 1000. Yes

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Posted 10th Nov 2013 at 14:45
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Niall

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Post #16
Ok Smile Nice to hear other peoples opinions on it. The engine is almost built now so think i may run it in for a month before the charger goes on.
Posted 10th Nov 2013 at 16:29
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allanallen

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Post #17
I'd run it with the charger on from the word go, start as you mean to go on Wink

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Posted 10th Nov 2013 at 19:34
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mattgti6phase2

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Post #18
I don't see any problem running it in with the charger on either. A charger hardly stresses these engines if at all.

If brand new engines were weak and require all this running in then they wouldn't RR them or test them extensively before they leave the factory. Will this be running in time for the Xmas meet Niall?

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Posted 10th Nov 2013 at 21:13
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jimmyrallye

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Post #19
Me personaly if I just built a engine last thing I would be doing would be strapping a charger on it ... If it was me I would run engine with the 3 oil changes then bolt the charger on

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Posted 10th Nov 2013 at 21:34
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mattgti6phase2

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Post #20
I hear that to mate. But it doesn't need to be caned at al.

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Posted 10th Nov 2013 at 21:39
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jimmyrallye

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Post #21
True but if you just built your engine and bolted a charger on your telling me you wouldn't get the urge because I know I bloody well would haha

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Posted 10th Nov 2013 at 21:46
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Niall

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Post #22
True about the start as you mean to go on but it won't have a proper map on it when i first start it with the charger which means it could very easily be over/under fuelling which is bad news with a new engine. Even if i got if flat bedded to the mapping, it would then take a lot of s**t on the RR which I'm sure it will deal with fine but I'm also sure there will be plenty of times in that mapping session when its under/over fuelling.
At least if i get it bedded then fit the charger, it should be a bit more resiliant to a not so perfect map until i get it on the RR.

Matt, no it won't be ready at the Xmas meet. Ill probably be in the Kia unless i get the engine in before that (doubt it) in which case it will be a perfect drive to bed it in! Hoping to have the charger on and mapping mid feb Smile
Posted 10th Nov 2013 at 21:55
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Niall

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Post #23
jimmyrallye wrote:
True but if you just built your engine and bolted a charger on your telling me you wouldn't get the urge because I know I bloody well would haha


Lol I'm probably one of the worst for this. Id probably think "oh once will be fine" Then before i know it, done a tank on full throttle!
Posted 10th Nov 2013 at 21:57
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allanallen

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Post #24
Whatever floats your boat at the end of the day. Are you planning on running the engine in on the standard management then?
My charged engine was completely rebuilt and as I mentioned earlier it was run in on the r/r (circa 150 miles) and ever since then it's been hammered.
I'm not sure why folk are under the impression an engine that's done loads of miles will stand up better than a freshly built oine?

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Posted 10th Nov 2013 at 22:08
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Niall

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Post #25
allanallen wrote:
Whatever floats your boat at the end of the day. Are you planning on running the engine in on the standard management then?
My charged engine was completely rebuilt and as I mentioned earlier it was run in on the r/r (circa 150 miles) and ever since then it's been hammered.
I'm not sure why folk are under the impression an engine that's done loads of miles will stand up better than a freshly built oine?


Yeah if it goes in as standard, it will be on standard management. As said, my main issue is a bad map when its new.
Posted 10th Nov 2013 at 22:10
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