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Author Subject: Low boost questions
Niall

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Post #1
Hi Guys
Right bit of a long winded post here but im hoping someone can help me. Ive decided im building a low boost engine for my 6 but taking a different route and using a Eaton charger. Now for me, building the engine is the easy bit. Ive built engines in the past and get on well with that but there are a few things i do need help with. First and easy one is how strong is the standard 6 engine? Im only looking for about 230bhp so nothing stupidly crazy but could i get away with this on standard internals?
Secondly and mainly is management. Im going to be using an Omex 600 ecu and will be building the loom my self. Problem is i really dont know much about aftermarket management. My main issues is sensors. Will i need a wideband lambda? Seeing as im having it mapped, i can have it mapped to boost unlike the lynx kit which doesnt see boost if im correct(?) but then what will i be using to measure pressure as the standard map sensor certainly wont be up to the job!

Look forward to the replies and please bear with me as i am quite retarded when it comes to engine management!
Posted 10th Sep 2013 at 22:34
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rallyestyle

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Post #2
Hello mate Wave

To answer a few of your questions...

A standard 6 engine will handle 230bhp with no problem Yes

allanallen on here has done an eaton conversion with an Mi16 engine so might be able to help you with details on the sensors and other bits Yes

It's ceratinly possible to go with an Eaton charger so yeah give it a whirl if you have the time Thumbs up

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Posted 11th Sep 2013 at 13:30
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russbez

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Post #3
rallyestyle wrote:


A standard 6 engine will handle 230bhp with no problem Yes



Yes

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Posted 11th Sep 2013 at 13:32
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jammapic

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Post #4
Niall, you don't need a map as its a fixed displacement charger and moves the same air per revolution every revolution. You can just map on throttle angle.

Need to be wary of

A) pressure on closed throttle
Cool pipe work leading to s**t response
C) heat
D) space

I looked at it myself, and have an m62 charger and mounting bracket I made. I got it piped up and making pressure, then decided it would never give throttle response like throttle bodies and sacked the idea off and went down an n/a route with similar power.

JP

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Posted 11th Sep 2013 at 13:45
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eliotrw

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Post #5
Im sure one of the old admins on here used an eaton charger?

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Posted 11th Sep 2013 at 13:53
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Niall

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Post #6
Thanks guys for the help!
I had a really long chat with a very helpful guy at Atspeed racing today as its likely these are the guys im going to use to map it (Have heard good things about them but if anyone can recommend anyone else, feel free...im based in SW London and am willing to travel 70ish miles with the car). They have answered my questions about the sensors and wiring and its made my life quite easy so now ive just got to get on with the build.
Im considering using a 1.8 bottom end with a gti head seeing as its a fair bit lighter and shorter stroke than the gti block i believe however ive got to do a lot of research into that before i consider it. Its a safe bet with the gti lump because so many people have boosted them. I dont think ive heard of any boosted 1.8 engines so not sure how reliable they will be!

As an update, my M60 charger turned up today so i can now start making up mounting brackets and adaptor plates then i need to get an inlet manifold built. Once thats done, it should be a fairly quick process to get it all in the car!
Posted 11th Sep 2013 at 17:09
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armzsc6

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Post #7
Someone has done this with a 205 gti-6 I've seen it at pugfest and on Facebook and believe Dangti6 knows the guy?

And yes mine has been running 250bhp for a year on standard internals with no issues at all. Don't think you'd get the same power from a 1.8 block or that it would put up with as much s**t either. An XU10j4RS is a square engine 86 stroke x 86 bore hitch is what makes it revy.

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Posted 11th Sep 2013 at 17:59
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Niall

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Post #8
oh really? I thought the 6 engine was undersquare at 86x87? Yeah tbh thats my concern. Id love to do something no one has done and see what a 1.8 bottom end is capable of but i wouldnt want to do it and melt it all on the drive home from mapping. At least with the 6 engine, i know it will be strong unless something else goes wrong!

And that 205 gti your talking about is Toms. Hes at ace most months. Its him i got the inspiartaion from after he took me out in it. It feels a hell of a lot quicker than a lynx low boost so either its running more than 216bhp or its just really light lol
Posted 11th Sep 2013 at 18:57
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armzsc6

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Post #9
Lol it is light anyway but the way a lynx one like mine delivers its power is very linear so it never wants to tear your head off. However look down at the speedo and your doing silly speed very quickly. Mines stripped as well as the map suits my engine. Rolling road graph was perfect smooth curves Big grin

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Posted 11th Sep 2013 at 19:26
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Niall

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Post #10
Lol thats what we like!
I will be putting up a wanted thread soon but ill mention it in here as well. If anyone has a Omex 600 for sale, let me know Smile
Posted 11th Sep 2013 at 19:32
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Niall

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Post #11
Oh and another quick question. What are the stock injectors good up until?
Posted 11th Sep 2013 at 19:43
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stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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Post #12
About 245bhp before they hit max duty-cycle. That's why the low boosts swapped to 440cc injectors. Yes

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Posted 11th Sep 2013 at 22:40
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Niall

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Post #13
Cheers Stan. So really at 230ish id be pushing it a bit then!
Posted 11th Sep 2013 at 22:43
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dangti6

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Post #14
armzs16 wrote:
Someone has done this with a 205 gti-6 I've seen it at pugfest and on Facebook and believe Dangti6 knows the guy?


Yeah that's right. Stefan.

He did everything himself from brackets to the inlet which he's currently improving.

Here's his project thread:

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=135465&hl=stef

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    • Posted 11th Sep 2013 at 22:51
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    jeffers Forum Admin

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    Post #15
    eliotrw wrote:
    Im sure one of the old admins on here used an eaton charger?

    This is the only eaton charged car I ever remember on here and It doesn't run that setup anymore but the owner is still knocking about on here. I'm sure he can give some useful info!
    Anyway the thread is Here
    *Edit* post 40 shows the engine, which I believe is an Eaton charged one?

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    Posted 11th Sep 2013 at 23:10
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    armzsc6

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    Post #16
    stan_306gti6 wrote:
    About 245bhp before they hit max duty-cycle. That's why the low boosts swapped to 440cc injectors. Yes


    Quickly question Stan, do high boosts use 440cc injectors or need further uprating? The lynx fitting guide says their good for 400bhp. However I always thought they used larger injectors for high boost?

    Niall if I have to uprate my injectors when I go high boost mine will be up for sale if you needed some. Gotta love the noise of a screw type charger though. It's one thing I wish mine did. Though my charger whistles pretty loud anyway.

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    Posted 12th Sep 2013 at 07:55
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    allanallen

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    Post #17
    When my charged car went for mapping it had gti6 injectors fitted and they ran out of go at around 195bhp so I'd say they're defo not big enough.
    Use a map sensor, they may be fixed displacement but you'll need to use a blow off valve/re-circ valve which will release boost pressure depending on throttle angle, load etc.

    What's your m62 off? Pullied correctly and intercooled a fresh m62 will be good for 300bhp+. I'd set your sights a bit higher than 230bhp the engine is more than capable of that if mapped correctly.

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    Posted 12th Sep 2013 at 08:48
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    allanallen

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    Post #18
    jeffers wrote:
    eliotrw wrote:
    Im sure one of the old admins on here used an eaton charger?

    This is the only eaton charged car I ever remember on here and It doesn't run that setup anymore but the owner is still knocking about on here. I'm sure he can give some useful info!
    Anyway the thread is Here
    *Edit* post 40 shows the engine, which I believe is an Eaton charged one?


    I d not really read the thread but that's an opcom(sp) twin screw charger. Peugeot ecosse used to do conversions so that's possibly one of there's.

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    Posted 12th Sep 2013 at 08:54
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    jammapic

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    Post #19
    Allan, I've found the same. ~200hp on throttle bodies and the injectors are done...

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    Posted 12th Sep 2013 at 08:56
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    eliotrw

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    Post #20
    I would be using a "high boost" sized cooler as they make more heat this type i think?

    Should sort that out

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    Posted 12th Sep 2013 at 10:15
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    allanallen

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    Post #21
    An intercooler that big is overkill for 250bhp in my opinion. Mines low boost sized and is spot on. With him using a m62 it'll be more efficient at the power he's after anyway.

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    Posted 12th Sep 2013 at 10:40
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    eliotrw

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    Post #22
    Ah ok fair enough!

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    Posted 12th Sep 2013 at 10:42
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    Niall

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    Post #23
    armzs16 wrote:

    Niall if I have to uprate my injectors when I go high boost mine will be up for sale if you needed some. Gotta love the noise of a screw type charger though. It's one thing I wish mine did. Though my charger whistles pretty loud anyway.


    If you do mate, let me know and ill probably have them. Its probably safer that i upgrade them before mapping. Even if the GTi ones could manage, at least ive got more scope for future power upgrades.

    The charger is from a Mercedes SLK220. It arrived yesterday and is in very good condition. Well chuffed considering it cost me £50!
    Intercooler wise, a mate has offered me the original one from his R26 megane which as im told by all the derv boys on OC, is the same dimensions as a Jag Xtype one which is almost a perfect fit. Im not sure if this will be too small to be honest.
    Posted 12th Sep 2013 at 16:01
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    eliotrw

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    Post #24
    The guy i was on about has had his for sale thread deleted : (

    It was http://www.306gti6.com/forum/showthread.php?id=130100&page=1
    But that doesnt work now

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    Posted 12th Sep 2013 at 16:52
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    superchargedblack1997gti6

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    Post #25
    Autodelete strikes again!

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    Posted 12th Sep 2013 at 16:54
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