How do they get 280bhp out gti6 engine? - Engines Forum - Peugeot 306 GTi-6 & Rallye Owners Club

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Subject: How do they get 280bhp out gti6 engine?

thomo6

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Location: York

Registered: 17 Oct 2010

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Post #1

Having searched the internet for 306 race cars for sale, have seen a couple quoting 280 bhp from the normally aspirated engine. Therefore wanted to know what they change/add to get these sort of figures. What is the maximum bhp you can safely go to with the standard internals?

We have a 306 with KMS throttle bodies and Emerald ECU pushing out approximately 195 bhp and are thinking of adding high lift cams and wondered what extra bhp this would give. Does any one have any experience or advise?

Finally would performance cams do any good on a Lynx low boost engine? Or is it a waste of time?

Posted 27th Aug 2013 at 22:09

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pete_rallye

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Post #2

If its in a btcc 306 then don't believe it. Longmans figures were completely exaggerated, I've never known one of there engines to make 250bhp yet alone 280bhp.

If its in a maxi then they rev to summin like 9500rpm to get that power, with high lift cams etc etc...

You should try cams in a low boost, don't know anyone that has but I am reckoning on a load of extra torque. Would probably take some messing about setting cam advance etc to get the most but should be worth it.

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Posted 27th Aug 2013 at 22:19

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stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

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Post #3

On a charged engine you would benefit from actually decreasing the lift from standard cams and increasing the duration as the standard cams are somewhat peaky anyway. Yes

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Posted 27th Aug 2013 at 22:29

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welshpug!

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Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

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Post #4

You dont need lift, you need duration, but you cant get that with standard pistoms as they havent enough space, and the static compression ratio is a bit low for wild cams.

To take it that far you need decent conrods and forged pistons, not pec and thd like, but carillo, cp, omega, farndon etc.

Solid lifters for the sustained rpm and cam shapes.

Plus of course a properly designed inlet tract snd exhaust manifold.

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Posted 27th Aug 2013 at 22:31

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miles

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Post #5

As said the BTCC specs are quite low and figures are high, I've got one to install so I'm interested to see what it makes, the best thing about them is the steel crank, Rods and pistons.
For 195 bhp there must be something else done to the engine, they normally only make 175 ish on a std engine

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Posted 27th Aug 2013 at 22:37

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miles

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Post #6

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Posted 27th Aug 2013 at 22:39

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JWP EFi

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Registered: 07 Mar 2010

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Post #7

other than the noise, why do people bother going bodies? Its clear factory inlet is capable of decent figures all beit with cams and mapping.

Posted 27th Aug 2013 at 22:44

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rallyeash

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Post #8

Miles, hows Craigs lump going? or you not been able to touch it yet?

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Posted 27th Aug 2013 at 22:51

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welshpug!

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Post #9

Its not about the figures, its allll about the curves and behaviour.

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Posted 27th Aug 2013 at 23:03

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JWP EFi

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Post #10

I know that. But i would want to see a significant improvement (especially buying them new plus mapping) If i had body money to spend then i would be going for pockets, 81's and map

Posted 27th Aug 2013 at 23:12

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rallyeash

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Post #11

which would see about 180hp on a standard inlet.

a gti6 engine with pocketed pistons, cams and bodies on a proper ecu/map would see near 200hp and mid range torque brought up providing the tract length has been properly sorted

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Posted 27th Aug 2013 at 23:14

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rallyeash

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Post #12

thomo6 wrote:

in short,

steel crank or if cc increase isnt an issue use a 88mm or 92mm diesel crank giving a 2.1 or 2.2 bottom end.
Forged pistons and high quality steel rods, a couple of mm shorter if using a 88mm or 92mm crank
solid lifters, some lairy cams, decent headwork, 48mm throttle bodies, decent inlet tract on the inlet manifold, 4-2-1 exhaust manifold with proper spec'd primaries and secondaries, 2.5 exahust system and somone who knows how to map it well.

estimate cost £10,000 plus if you add a dry sump etc

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Project thread here
309 3dr K20 Type R

Posted 27th Aug 2013 at 23:19

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pete_rallye

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Post #13

welshpug! wrote:

Its not about the figures, its allll about the curves and behaviour.

Yeah but you're not going to win any races with a lovely power and torque curve but only 180bhp are you? Sure the curves are important but to say 'its not about the figures' is crap, you still need a decent amount of power and torque to win races.

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Posted 27th Aug 2013 at 23:28

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armzsc6

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Post #14

Pug 1 off have made 2 NA engines both quoting just over 280bhp one is a red rally's one is in their green 205 gti-6. Both run solid lifters silly big boddies silly high compression and very long can duration multiple injectors etc etc.

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Posted 28th Aug 2013 at 00:24

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rallyeash

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Post #15

With hardly any Torque!

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Posted 28th Aug 2013 at 00:49

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welshpug!

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Registered: 27 Mar 2007

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Post #16

pete_rallye wrote:

welshpug! wrote:

Its not about the figures, its allll about the curves and behaviour.

taken right out of context again just like RichE LOL

tug1off's "310" bhp gti6 engine is a massive case in point, it makes it right up at well over 8.5k, and barely makes 180 lbft

compare that to say an SB 270+ bhp engine, that makes so much fatter curve and peak torque it WILL be quicker, and WILL last longer.

and it also far cheaper to build and maintain!

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Posted 28th Aug 2013 at 09:21

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thomo6

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Registered: 17 Oct 2010

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Post #17

For 195 bhp there must be something else done to the engine, they normally only make 175 ish on a std engine

Found the original spec when the car was for sale and it also has a 4-2-1 exhaust maifold linked to na full Peugeot sport exhaust. Would that make a significant to the bhp? Dunno

Anyway looking on the Pug1off website the only things we do not have fitted already, when compared to their stage 3 tuning option, are the fast road camshafts and a ported head. They are quoting this gives approximately 205bhp and this is the limit of the standard internals???

Forgive my ignorance but what is a SB 270+bhp engine, can't work that one out! Unsure

Posted 28th Aug 2013 at 12:01

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roland rat

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Post #18

thomo6 wrote:

Forgive my ignorance but what is a SB 270+bhp engine, can't work that one out! Unsure

sandy brown Wink

Posted 28th Aug 2013 at 12:05

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bigbadbowen

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Post #19

s**ty boost

Posted 28th Aug 2013 at 12:08

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stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

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Post #20

bigbadbowen wrote:

s**ty boost

No, that would be known as a "LB" not "SB" Chris... LOL

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Posted 28th Aug 2013 at 14:29

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eliotrw

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Post #21

stan_306gti6 wrote:

bigbadbowen wrote:

s**ty boost

No, that would be known as a "LB" not "SB" Chris... LOL

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Posted 28th Aug 2013 at 14:49

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blandy

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Post #22

But surely you can't compare n/a torque to forced induction the maxi's made 308 bhp and 265NM torque which is 195lbft which again is alot less than a boosted car

Posted 28th Aug 2013 at 16:21

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atterz

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Registered: 18 Feb 2011

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Post #23

Why is there a picture of a gimp in Stans avatar anybody? Im confused.

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Posted 28th Aug 2013 at 16:37

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superchargedblack1997gti6

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Registered: 15 Aug 2009

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Post #24

I would dearly love a 280bhp 6 engine NA but its not financially viable for most as the best prices i could see for that power level means. minimum £6k engine build with steel crank gas flowed head and a good set of high comp pistons and decent rods + bodies +management 2 sets of injectors and that puts it in the realms of 8k for an engine that's going to be fairly stressed and you're going to have to rev it to get the full power i think the pug 1 off engine needs a rebuild every 750miles or something stupid like that.
though i think Petes btcc car shows the difference of the power delivery of NA on his videos you can see he can use all the power his car has without it trying to pull him off the track i worry at my superhighboost will be unmanageable + Pete being a very good driver helps! LOL

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Posted 28th Aug 2013 at 17:00

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rallyeash

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Location: Devizes

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Post #25

Look forward to having a track session with you Ross later this year!...

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230 hp 2.1 16v XU 205 rallye on jenveys Hyper

Project thread here
309 3dr K20 Type R

Posted 28th Aug 2013 at 16:49

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