displaying posts 1 to 21 of 21

Author Subject: I want what his got...
indreams

Newbie

Location: Kalundborg

Registered: 11 Feb 2013

Posts: 27

Status: Offline

Post #1
I’m competing in a class where suspension changes are allowed but engine and gearbox are to be left standard, therefor my focus are very much on making the car handle as well, and predictable, as possible.

I'm fairly new to the 306(have been racing 106’s and 205’s) but I have seen this guy, Stanleygti306, on YouTubehttp://www.youtube.com/user/stanleygti306?feature=guide and his car really looks well sorted regarding the suspension.

I have searched, and found, a thread (http://www.peugeot-club.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=52439) about his car but it’s in Czech and Google translate doesn’t do it much justice.

Would you say that this cars handling, and especially how flat it goes around corners, is down to dampers, antiroll bars(s) or torsion bars being upgraded?

regards
Michael
Posted 1st Jun 2013 at 17:39
adam b

Seasoned Pro

Location: The Nam

Registered: 24 Jan 2006

Posts: 12,828

Status: Offline

Post #2
Speak to allenallen, crf450, ash or russian guy. They know a thing or two.

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Posted 1st Jun 2013 at 19:09
daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

Location: Southampton

Registered: 01 Oct 2007

Posts: 8,648

Status: Offline

Post #3
Neg camber, roller bearing wishbone bushes, solid rear beam mounts, bigger rear ARB, coilovers, sticky tyres on light rims. This is a good start.

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R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.

Some of my services: (See my for sale threads)
Engine mount/chassis repair
Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION
Harness bars
Posted 1st Jun 2013 at 19:15
allanallen

Seasoned Pro

Location: Buxton

Registered: 01 May 2007

Posts: 1,399

Status: Offline

Post #4
Cheers Adam Razz

You should start by letting us know what set up you've got at the minute, what discipline your competing in, what tyres you're using/what are you allowed to use and budget.
Just because a car looks flat when cornering doesn't mean it's 'handling' well or using its tyres properly.

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Posted 1st Jun 2013 at 20:05
adam b

Seasoned Pro

Location: The Nam

Registered: 24 Jan 2006

Posts: 12,828

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Post #5
No worries - I should have mentioned Phil too Wink

Then again he never actually makes any of the shiny things he tempts us with Smile

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Posted 2nd Jun 2013 at 07:31
indreams

Newbie

Location: Kalundborg

Registered: 11 Feb 2013

Posts: 27

Status: Offline

Post #6
allanallen wrote:
Cheers Adam Razz

You should start by letting us know what set up you've got at the minute, what discipline your competing in, what tyres you're using/what are you allowed to use and budget.
Just because a car looks flat when cornering doesn't mean it's 'handling' well or using its tyres properly.


Well of course, my mistake and thanks for all the answers Thumbs up

I’m 45 years old and having realized that my talent has some shortcomings are competing in the lowest class of rally in Denmark a discipline called “klub rally” but it’s more like autosolo or slalom to you guy’s.

So far my main concern has been to lighten the car by removing sound deadening in the bottom of the car and of course all carpets, seats and so on giving af weight of around 1040 kg.

At the moment I have H&R(Bilstein) monotube coilovers at the front and Bilstein at the back, Kumho V70A tyres and that’s pretty much it.

Due to regulations I’m not allowed to change the top mount and the rosejointing are also not allowed. Tyre vice these must be E-marked or Dot’ed.

My budget lye within reason, meaning I will spend a lot if I get a lot. I will spend perhaps 1000 £ if I get a car that handles well but I will not spend 800 for not much gain.
Posted 2nd Jun 2013 at 08:36
daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

Location: Southampton

Registered: 01 Oct 2007

Posts: 8,648

Status: Offline

Post #7
A VTS rack will help you go make direction changes in the slalom a little more quickly with less twirling of the wheel.

________________________________________

R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.

Some of my services: (See my for sale threads)
Engine mount/chassis repair
Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION
Harness bars
Posted 2nd Jun 2013 at 08:56
7057sam

Seasoned Pro

Location: Stowmarket,Suffolk

Registered: 18 Apr 2009

Posts: 2,080

Status: Offline

Post #8
The guy in the video must be running bodies.

Sounded Love

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Posted 2nd Jun 2013 at 20:10
indreams

Newbie

Location: Kalundborg

Registered: 11 Feb 2013

Posts: 27

Status: Offline

Post #9
no don't think so. apparently he "only" has about 190 bhp.
Posted 2nd Jun 2013 at 22:20
phillipm

Seasoned Pro

Location: Rotherham

Registered: 15 Oct 2006

Posts: 20,607

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Post #10
adam b wrote:
No worries - I should have mentioned Phil too Wink

Then again he never actually makes any of the shiny things he tempts us with Smile


Of course I do. It's just generally, I make one, bolt it to mine, take some pictures and then can't be arsed to make any more...

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Posted 2nd Jun 2013 at 22:25
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,838

Status: Offline

Post #11
190 would be a standard engine on bodies thereabouts.

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Posted 2nd Jun 2013 at 22:25
jamiek_uk2000

Seasoned Pro

Location: Llanelli

Registered: 18 Apr 2009

Posts: 1,925

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Post #12
phillipm wrote:
Of course I do. It's just generally, I make one, bolt it to mine, take some pictures and then can't be arsed to make any more...


Other people are so demanding, wanting things! Offering to pay good money for services! How selfish can people be Big grin Big grin

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Posted 2nd Jun 2013 at 22:36
pete_rallye

Seasoned Pro

Location: Yorkshire

Registered: 12 Dec 2002

Posts: 5,253

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Post #13
You should definately look at increasing the camber and castor at the front, although without changing the top mounts and fitting some rose joints this could be difficult! Do they define exactly what they mean by rose joints? Some of Rich_w's solid bearing wishbone bushes would be good, and they are not, strictly speaking, rose jointed!

At the back you can fit solid beam mounts, larger diameter torsion bars and anti roll bar and depending on how far you want to go, have your rear arms redrilled for different camber and toe settings.

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Posted 2nd Jun 2013 at 22:38
beez_neez_gt

Seasoned Pro

Location: @ de limit of adhesion !

Registered: 14 Oct 2008

Posts: 2,916

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Post #14
LOL

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Posted 2nd Jun 2013 at 22:39
phillipm

Seasoned Pro

Location: Rotherham

Registered: 15 Oct 2006

Posts: 20,607

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Post #15
jamiek_uk2000 wrote:
phillipm wrote:
Of course I do. It's just generally, I make one, bolt it to mine, take some pictures and then can't be arsed to make any more...


Other people are so demanding, wanting things! Offering to pay good money for services! How selfish can people be Big grin Big grin


The swines!

________________________________________

- Bespoke rollcages/additions/adjustments. Half cages right up to complete custom spaceframes - MSA/FIA spec, CDS, ROPT, T45, etc - PM me
Email me!
Custom-made polybushes available - need an odd size or fitment? - anything from batch work to one-off pieces.
Posted 3rd Jun 2013 at 00:34
allanallen

Seasoned Pro

Location: Buxton

Registered: 01 May 2007

Posts: 1,399

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Post #16
I'm not entirely sure what autosolo and slalom are to be honest? Is it like sprinting or is it more handbrake turning through cones and stuff?
If it is those tyres may not be the best choice as they need heat in them to work properly. If they are though as Pete says they need some negative camber to work properly, ideally some castor and you want to be looking at your spring rates.
Shameless plug I know but we can modify your front uprights and rear arms to give neg camber, our method gets around alot of regs although it sounds like these shouldn't be a problem for you anyway. Extra castor could be a problem, you're either gonna have to alter the subframe, wishbones or perhaps move the standard strut top holes if you can get away with that? Either way it's not a bolt on solution.
What spring rate at the front, torsion bars and arbs are you using?

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Posted 3rd Jun 2013 at 05:46
allanallen

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Location: Buxton

Registered: 01 May 2007

Posts: 1,399

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Post #17
Double post

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Posted 3rd Jun 2013 at 05:46
indreams

Newbie

Location: Kalundborg

Registered: 11 Feb 2013

Posts: 27

Status: Offline

Post #18
allanallen wrote:
I'm not entirely sure what autosolo and slalom are to be honest? Is it like sprinting or is it more handbrake turning through cones and stuff?
If it is those tyres may not be the best choice as they need heat in them to work properly. If they are though as Pete says they need some negative camber to work properly, ideally some castor and you want to be looking at your spring rates.
Shameless plug I know but we can modify your front uprights and rear arms to give neg camber, our method gets around alot of regs although it sounds like these shouldn't be a problem for you anyway. Extra castor could be a problem, you're either gonna have to alter the subframe, wishbones or perhaps move the standard strut top holes if you can get away with that? Either way it's not a bolt on solution.
What spring rate at the front, torsion bars and arbs are you using?


Well, klubrally is around 10 stages with a length of around 2 km each. Max speed is 140 km/h (In a 106 rallye) and there is a lot of handbreaking and very tight corners. Look her and you will see Smile http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykJbz2spDyQ
Very good point about the tires as they tend to only get warm at the end of each stage. I have tried with softer ones but they seem to melt at the end so others must be found(I looked at Michelin Pilot Sport Cup as a compromise between hardcore R-tires and more normal ones)
Both ARB and torsionbars are as standard. I planned to switch to a Hybrid ARB but part of the reason I’m for this thread are a wish of doing it right first time.
Posted 3rd Jun 2013 at 10:38
allanallen

Seasoned Pro

Location: Buxton

Registered: 01 May 2007

Posts: 1,399

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Post #19
Yeah maybe not a brilliant tyre choice, what tyres do the most successful cars run?
Looks like a good vertical hrdraulic handbrake would be a worthwhile addition! An LSD would be an excellent mod if you could get away with it..........

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Posted 3rd Jun 2013 at 10:55
phillipm

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Location: Rotherham

Registered: 15 Oct 2006

Posts: 20,607

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Post #20
That's something where a much higher rear rate would be beneficial due to the low speed of most of the manouvers, however it might hurt you if there's high speed sweepers, it's something that could be a compromise with better rear dampers as you could jack the low speed up to deliberately overload the rear outside tyre when throwing the car into a tight turn to get the car to rotate.
As it'll push the front in turns that tight at low speed, a stiffer rear arb for the cheapest way to push the balance of grip forward, or preferably, stiffer torsion bars and springs and go down on the front arb size to gain overall grip, although that costs more cash LOL

Front camber will definately help as tyre rollover can be a big issue in events like that.
Are you allowed to run fiddle brakes?

________________________________________

- Bespoke rollcages/additions/adjustments. Half cages right up to complete custom spaceframes - MSA/FIA spec, CDS, ROPT, T45, etc - PM me
Email me!
Custom-made polybushes available - need an odd size or fitment? - anything from batch work to one-off pieces.
Posted 3rd Jun 2013 at 10:57
adam b

Seasoned Pro

Location: The Nam

Registered: 24 Jan 2006

Posts: 12,828

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Post #21
phillipm wrote:
Are you allowed to run fiddle brakes?


Love Love Love Love

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Posted 3rd Jun 2013 at 20:31

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