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| Author | Subject: OEM GTI6 calipers vs. 406 Brembo |
 FatBastard
Regular  Location: Amst Registered: 30 Oct 2005 Posts: 190 Status: Offline |
Post #1
Hello,I am wondering whether 406 brembos are really better than OEM GTI6 calipers. I have the Brembo 4pot installed with 288 Xantia V6 and the noise is awful. Also, i dont feel they stop better than my old GTI6 calipers and the extra noise simply doesnt worth it. Any thoughts? Cheers |
 Posted 3rd Jun 2012 at 16:40
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aaron6
Seasoned Pro  Location: On the sofa in maidstone Registered: 16 May 2006 Posts: 5,840 Status: Offline |
Post #2
Been in few with the 310 and 330 kit. All are better than standard brakes.  ________________________________________ See the sheer power and might of the lesser known burrowing owl. |
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Posted 3rd Jun 2012 at 17:51
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adam b
Seasoned Pro  Location: The Nam Registered: 24 Jan 2006 Posts: 12,828 Status: Offline |
Post #3
Yes they were, but not by much. The 310 kit was in a different league!________________________________________ Nothing to see here |
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Posted 3rd Jun 2012 at 18:49
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FatBastard
Regular Location: Amst Registered: 30 Oct 2005 Posts: 190 Status: Offline |
Post #4
Thanks, but I was not talking about 310/330mm kits. I know they are better. The 406 brembos are rather small and squeaking. The GTI6 are very good. I thought i might get an improvement with the 406 brembos but i dont feel they are better. I am considering going back to OEM |
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Posted 3rd Jun 2012 at 23:16
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owain
Seasoned Pro  Location: Essex Registered: 20 May 2009 Posts: 9,185 Status: Offline |
Post #5
406 Brembos are phenomenally better than the standard brakes, but only if you have decent pads and Tarox discs which don't squeal. Reason you're probably not noticing a difference is because you're always afraid to brake hard for fear of rupturing your eardrums and having your brain explode out of the sides of your head, while birds fall from the sky and pensioners keel over dead. Slap on some Tarox discs and they're really impressive, I had them for a fair while on track and with the right pads at the right temperature they can really rip your face off. As others have said Ash's kit (which I have now) is in yet another league, but it's also far more expensive and not what you were asking. Personally, I'd get yourself some Tarox discs to get rid of the squeal, then you can use them properly  ________________________________________ Membership expiring soon, get in contact on our new little forum project. |
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Posted 4th Jun 2012 at 08:18
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FatBastard
Regular Location: Amst Registered: 30 Oct 2005 Posts: 190 Status: Offline |
Post #6
Thanks for the info. What is so special with Tarox material which eliminates the noise? You also recommend tarox pads?I am running with OEM 288 discs and DS2500 pads right now. |
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Posted 4th Jun 2012 at 09:01
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stan_306gti6
Forum Admin Location: Kent Registered: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 21,768 Status: Offline |
Post #7
I have a 330mm Ash kit with the Brembos, excellent performance, lap after lap on track.However, I believe a lot of the performance is down to the fact that there is a large difference in rotor size as well as the calipers. The fact you are running the same calipers but on a rotor only 5mm larger than standard is really limiting the capability of the caliper. The fact it is noisy as well, is just off-putting. As Owain says, with the Xantia setup, Tarox really is the only way to go, however if you really want a decent brake setup and have the spare funds, then go for a 310 or 330mm kit and you won't be disappointed. ________________________________________ "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"Peugeot 306 GTi-6 2000 (X), Moonstone  |
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Posted 4th Jun 2012 at 09:41
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adam b
Seasoned Pro Location: The Nam Registered: 24 Jan 2006 Posts: 12,828 Status: Offline |
Post #8
The G88 discs have loads of cut outs which change the vibration frequency of the disc, stopping the noise. To be fair I only ever used mine with standard discs and pads.________________________________________ Nothing to see here |
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Posted 4th Jun 2012 at 09:44
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FatBastard
Regular Location: Amst Registered: 30 Oct 2005 Posts: 190 Status: Offline |
Post #9
Ash's kit has several problems:1. Its very expensive if you dont live in the UK 2. No one can guarantee it will fit in my 16" wheels 6.5 with with 20 mm spacers. I am not going to change wheels since i want to preserve the current sleeper look of the car as much as possible. 3. you need non OEM sizes of rotors and pads - and if you dont live in the UK and have to import them - its not cost effective. If Ash could produce brackets that let these calipers use the 305mm OEM rotors of the 406 it would be great for me, since i wont need new calipers, pads and rotors. But i guess there is not much need for these kind of brackets in the market.  |
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Posted 4th Jun 2012 at 09:49
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stan_306gti6
Forum Admin Location: Kent Registered: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 21,768 Status: Offline |
Post #10
True enough, importing all the parts required will add a considerable cost to the conversion...As said then, you're best off going for the Tarox discs and a decent set of pads to get good braking performance coupled with noise elimination. Owain has done quite a lot of trackdays, so his experience with this setup is fairly highly regarded, I would go with it. ________________________________________ "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"Peugeot 306 GTi-6 2000 (X), Moonstone |
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Posted 4th Jun 2012 at 10:03
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playboyb
Seasoned Pro  Location: Maidstone Son! Registered: 27 Jun 2011 Posts: 1,464 Status: Offline |
Post #11
With brakes you pay for what you get... Respectively I would imagine the 406 setup will be marginally better than the 6 standard brakes with the right pad and disc combo, I also run the 310 ash kit brembos and they are epic. Brembo ftw!________________________________________ 306 1.8 xs moonstone blue-SOLD306 gti6 supercharged china blue-SOLD 406 coupe D9 3.0 V6-SOLD |
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Posted 4th Jun 2012 at 10:10
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FatBastard
Regular Location: Amst Registered: 30 Oct 2005 Posts: 190 Status: Offline |
Post #12
Playboyb - if the price of the kit you are using was 3 times higher - would you agree to pay for it?This is how Ash' kit will cost me. Also - the car is daily driven mostly. Its not doing on track every weekend. I will try the tarox path - I guess. Just need to see which pads Owain is using. |
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Posted 4th Jun 2012 at 10:25
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midlife
Seasoned Pro  Location: Colne, Lancashire Registered: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 7,544 Status: Offline |
Post #13
Fatbas**rd wrote: Playboyb - if the price of the kit you are using was 3 times higher - would you agree to pay for it? This is how Ash' kit will cost me. Also - the car is daily driven mostly. Its not doing on track every weekend. I will try the tarox path - I guess. Just need to see which pads Owain is using. As said above you get what you pay for, I have Ash's 330mm kit and it's phenomenal!!!!! Your being bothered about it costing triple made me laugh. I paid nearly £2000 all in for mine as I needed to buy new 17" wheels & tyres aswel, if I had my time over again I would spend the money again yes, only I'd spend it earlier & not live with the STD set up.  ________________________________________ Get used to seeing the yellow one !!! Team 330™ Team "no front end or engine" Team "LIMITED EDITION" I live for the 306 sticker  Team 0-60 in 6.44 & standing qtr in 14.808 @ 94.55mph all with std engine 203bhp Corolla T-Sport daily driver stealthier than Kwai Chang Caine |
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Posted 4th Jun 2012 at 11:07
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owain
Seasoned Pro Location: Essex Registered: 20 May 2009 Posts: 9,185 Status: Offline |
Post #14
Fatbas**rd wrote: I will try the tarox path - I guess. Just need to see which pads Owain is using. I used EBC YellowStuffs with mine purely because that's all that was in stock when I needed them urgently, and they were very impressive. They worked best when they got hot, so they might be a bit much for road as they'd never get warm. The Tarox discs have deep cutouts which completely change the resonant frequency of the disc, so no squeal.  Fatbas**rd wrote: No one can guarantee it will fit in my 16" wheels 6.5 with with 20 mm spacers. I am not going to change wheels since i want to preserve the current sleeper look of the car as much as possible. To be fair, nobody ever is going to do that as there are far too many factors to consider. I can't remember how many times I've known people spend money on kit just to find it doesn't fit, but when you've got a car you've modified quite clearly no-one's going to guarantee you that their product will work. That's why big brakes are normally designed around the wheels people will use if they need those brakes; if you need brakes like Ash's kit, most people end up with TD Pro Race 1.2's as they just tick all the boxes. They're strong, light, and have plenty of clearance. If you want to run silly tart wheels from Halfords and aren't willing to change them for the sake of ruining your "look", then with all due respect you probably don't "need" those brakes; get a set of 406 Brembos powder coated up all nice and they'll look great Fatbas**rd wrote: If Ash could produce brackets that let these calipers use the 305mm OEM rotors of the 406 it would be great for me Not going to happen unfortunately, I know Ash personally and I know he spent a small fortune developing his brake kits, unless you wanted twenty sets it wouldn't even be worth his time developing it. It's an extremely well made kit for an increasingly small market, can't see much more development being done towards these cars unfortunately. ________________________________________ Membership expiring soon, get in contact on our new little forum project. |
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Posted 4th Jun 2012 at 11:52
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stan_306gti6
Forum Admin Location: Kent Registered: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 21,768 Status: Offline |
Post #15
midlife wrote: As said above you get what you pay for, I have Ash's 330mm kit and it's phenomenal!!!!! Your being bothered about it costing triple made me laugh. I paid nearly £2000 all in for mine as I needed to buy new 17" wheels & tyres aswel, if I had my time over again I would spend the money again yes, only I'd spend it earlier & not live with the STD set up. +1 Mine cost me £1200, as I already had the wheels and tyres, but IMO the best upgrade I've done on the car on par with the super high boost conversion. The confidence in braking is supreme. ________________________________________ "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"Peugeot 306 GTi-6 2000 (X), Moonstone |
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Posted 4th Jun 2012 at 11:52
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stan_306gti6
Forum Admin Location: Kent Registered: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 21,768 Status: Offline |
Post #16
owain wrote: It's an extremely well made kit for an increasingly small market, can't see much more development being done towards these cars unfortunately. This is a very unfortunate fact IMO. ________________________________________ "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"Peugeot 306 GTi-6 2000 (X), Moonstone |
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Posted 4th Jun 2012 at 11:54
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owain
Seasoned Pro Location: Essex Registered: 20 May 2009 Posts: 9,185 Status: Offline |
Post #17
midlife wrote: As said above you get what you pay for, I have Ash's 330mm kit and it's phenomenal!!!!! Your being bothered about it costing triple made me laugh. I paid nearly £2000 all in for mine as I needed to buy new 17" wheels & tyres aswel, if I had my time over again I would spend the money again yes, only I'd spend it earlier & not live with the STD set up. +2 I got the calipers cheap, even so probably somewhere around £1500 for the calipers, pads, kit and wheels to fit, but that's the price you pay for wanting brakes that make people s**t themselves when you go hurtling towards corners at silly speed, only to scrub it all off in plenty of time. However in order to do that, you need the right suspension, standard road suspension wouldn't be particularly safe doing that I wouldn't imagine, so by the time you've spent £500+ on suspension, hours replacing every last bush and bearing, another £200+ on Rich's roller bearings and either a fortune on trackdays or a charger to be honest £1500 on wheels and brakes is nothing for the safety and performance they give you. I know that sounds like a really arrogant thing to say, but it's true. If you need awesome brakes, £1k for a kit is *nothing*. Buy an M3 and upgrade those, Alcon do a kit that stops an M3 as well as Ash's kit stops a 306, and it's about £3k. Once you get up to the likes of the tuned Evos and such, you can easily spend £5k+ on brakes. Race cars and such, you won't be getting anything below £10k I wouldn't imagine. So I'd say if that seems like a ridiculous amount of money to spend on not slamming into a wall, you probably don't need them. 406 Brembos will do you fine ________________________________________ Membership expiring soon, get in contact on our new little forum project. |
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Posted 4th Jun 2012 at 11:59
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stan_306gti6
Forum Admin Location: Kent Registered: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 21,768 Status: Offline |
Post #18
Yes, what Owain says is true...I know I've spent A LOT of money on upgraded suspension, solid/stiffer bushes and roller bearing bushes too, 3 different charger conversions, different exhaust setups etc before I got the car exactly where I wanted it. Modifying cars is a simple chain of events. You go for more power, you need to be able to stop with that power. Once you can stop with that power, then you need to be able to stop precisely and safely with that power and on top of that you need to be able to get round corners accurately. So before you know it, adding 100bhp to the car has just cost you the best part of 10k modifying everything else to suit. Sounds harsh, but it's the only way to do it properly. ________________________________________ "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"Peugeot 306 GTi-6 2000 (X), Moonstone |
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Posted 4th Jun 2012 at 12:19
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adam b
Seasoned Pro Location: The Nam Registered: 24 Jan 2006 Posts: 12,828 Status: Offline |
Post #19
You are all mad!!The 310 brembo kit + 16" Pro race 1.2s with nearly new rainsport tyres cost me under £300 overall. Wasn't new though I guess! ________________________________________ Nothing to see here |
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Posted 4th Jun 2012 at 12:28
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stan_306gti6
Forum Admin Location: Kent Registered: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 21,768 Status: Offline |
Post #20
adam b wrote: Wasn't new though I guess! That's the difference, my Brembos were £530ish new from Pug. ________________________________________ "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"Peugeot 306 GTi-6 2000 (X), Moonstone |
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Posted 4th Jun 2012 at 12:38
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yippeekayay
Seasoned Pro  Location: wilts Registered: 27 Oct 2008 Posts: 4,144 Status: Offline |
Post #21
And i havent had an offer on my ash 310 kit...in bottom drawer they go....________________________________________ 306 less for first time in nearly 7 years. Lets keep it that way... please refuse any offers i make to buy your 306 ( doctors letter supplied by request)Marmite and cheese sandwiches anyone??? Burns and Mcrae will be forever missed. x box "yippeekayaymofo" |
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Posted 4th Jun 2012 at 13:32
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FatBastard
Regular Location: Amst Registered: 30 Oct 2005 Posts: 190 Status: Offline |
Post #22
Owain,Thanks for the info. I didnt say anywhere i needed 310mm kit. I was consulting regarding the effectiveness of 406 Brembos vs. GTI6 brakes. I'll try the Tar-ox with some good pads. |
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Posted 4th Jun 2012 at 13:56
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stan_306gti6
Forum Admin Location: Kent Registered: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 21,768 Status: Offline |
Post #23
Fatbas**rd wrote: Owain, Thanks for the info. I didnt say anywhere i needed 310mm kit. I was consulting regarding the effectiveness of 406 Brembos vs. GTI6 brakes. I'll try the Tar-ox with some good pads. We know you weren't asking after a 310mm kit, what Owain was referring to was that spending 1k on brakes wasn't expensive in the grand scheme of things when it comes to modifying cars. ________________________________________ "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"Peugeot 306 GTi-6 2000 (X), Moonstone |
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Posted 4th Jun 2012 at 14:02
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playboyb
Seasoned Pro Location: Maidstone Son! Registered: 27 Jun 2011 Posts: 1,464 Status: Offline |
Post #24
Fatbas**rd wrote: Playboyb - if the price of the kit you are using was 3 times higher - would you agree to pay for it? This is how Ash' kit will cost me. Also - the car is daily driven mostly. Its not doing on track every weekend. I will try the tarox path - I guess. Just need to see which pads Owain is using. Yes I would, personally it is worth the money, as stan says If you want a car to go fast it needs to have stopping power that relates to the speed you can go, aswell as uprated/stiffer suspension. Gti6 brakes with a decent pad and disc is more than enough to stop a standard engine 6, once your above the 200bhp mark you need to look elsewhere ________________________________________ 306 1.8 xs moonstone blue-SOLD306 gti6 supercharged china blue-SOLD 406 coupe D9 3.0 V6-SOLD |
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Posted 4th Jun 2012 at 14:10
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FatBastard
Regular Location: Amst Registered: 30 Oct 2005 Posts: 190 Status: Offline |
Post #25
I am aware of the importance of brakes when modifying cars. I don't think that i will need 310mm kit for the designated activity of my car. I mentioned that if one spends, in the UK, 1000 quid for braking, i will need to spend X3 of that, with import and taxes - not to mention the fact that i cannot import used brake parts. Its not legal.That is why i am trying to find the best solution i can afford, right now, and that is why i was asking if the 406 Brembos worth investing in order to eliminate the noise. That is - if they are indeed better than the GTI6 ones. |
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Posted 4th Jun 2012 at 14:13
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