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| Author | Subject: 1.6 conversion to the 2.0l gti6 running crap |
 Teshboi1988
Regular  Location: Dartford Registered: 29 Jan 2012 Posts: 131 Status: Offline |
Post #26
i cant remember whether i lowered it or raised it... waiting upon email from guy i got it off to tell me ratioits either gna be 8.0.1 lower comp or 12.2.1 raised comp ima apprentice atm learning the ropes so ur knowledge wood be helpful so cood people break it dwn thanks every1 ________________________________________ phase 3 Hatchback V reg 5Door GTi6 |
 Posted 14th Mar 2012 at 20:39
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stan_306gti6
Forum Admin Location: Kent Registered: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 21,768 Status: Offline |
Post #27
Adjusting it AT ALL will require a mapping change. It won't just run as was.  As Anth says, high compression leads to better fuel economy, and a better mix of the fuel/air. Low compression is what is needed when you have forced induction. The reason for this is when the engine is NA, it is SUCKING the air in and so only sucks a certain amount on the intake stroke before that air is then compressed on the compression stroke. When you add forced induction (turbo or supercharger) you are BLOWING compressed air into the cylinder on the intake stroke. Therefore, you fill the cylinder with a LOT more air with forced induction than you do with NA. For this reason, the compression has to be lower to cope with huge amount of air being forced into the cylinder. ________________________________________ "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"Peugeot 306 GTi-6 2000 (X), Moonstone  |
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Posted 14th Mar 2012 at 20:55
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davewagon
Senior User  Location: Corby / Northampton Registered: 21 Feb 2007 Posts: 889 Status: Offline |
Post #28
stan_306gti6 wrote: Adjusting it AT ALL will require a mapping change. It won't just run as was. As Anth says, high compression leads to better fuel economy, and a better mix of the fuel/air. Low compression is what is needed when you have forced induction. The reason for this is when the engine is NA, it is SUCKING the air in and so only sucks a certain amount on the intake stroke before that air is then compressed on the compression stroke. When you add forced induction (turbo or supercharger) you are BLOWING compressed air into the cylinder on the intake stroke. Therefore, you fill the cylinder with a LOT more air with forced induction than you do with NA. For this reason, the compression has to be lower to cope with huge amount of air being forced into the cylinder. You're my hero, I've never understood this compression lark?! So ... Can you easily raise compression on our engines and see performance gains? (i.e. shove in some high comp pistons and get a remap?) Dave Edit: ooooh, sw**ky new quote capabilities! Edit again: ropey swear filter ________________________________________ Team: Moonstone GTI-6™Team: ian7675 wrote: Remember....a 6 isn't just a car, it's a part time job  |
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Posted 14th Mar 2012 at 21:01
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stan_306gti6
Forum Admin Location: Kent Registered: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 21,768 Status: Offline |
Post #29
Dave - You can alter the compression and see gains from it on our engines to a degree. By upping the compression ratio, you can extract more useful effort from the fuel/air mixture being burnt and the expanding gas from such an explosion will be able to work harder to push the piston back down the bore. The higher the compression ratio, the better thermal efficiency of the engine you will see. (This is one of the reasons diesel engines are economical, they typically have compression ratios of 22 or 23:1...However... By upping the compression ratio, you will increase the chance of detonation when using lower octane fuels. Because our engines use a knock sensor, the ECU will retard the ignition to cope with this, making power gains minimal.  ________________________________________ "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"Peugeot 306 GTi-6 2000 (X), Moonstone |
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Posted 14th Mar 2012 at 21:16
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic  Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,838 Status: Offline |
Post #30
ideal for fitting wilder cams though.________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 14th Mar 2012 at 21:24
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davewagon
Senior User Location: Corby / Northampton Registered: 21 Feb 2007 Posts: 889 Status: Offline |
Post #31
Is there a readily available higher octane fuel in the UK to minimise the risk of detonation (when you say detonation, do you mean engines goes Kaboom! or that fuel ignites under the pressure/heat before the spark plugs do?)My car has Kent PT80's, so could some gains be found from fitting high comp pistons (taking the opportunity to get some with valve cut-outs, thus paving the way for lairier cams in the future) Bottom line, you wouldn't lose performance or damage the engine hopefully (as the knock sensor would deal with that) but you would not likely see much in the way of gains? Sorry for all the questions ________________________________________ Team: Moonstone GTI-6™Team: ian7675 wrote: Remember....a 6 isn't just a car, it's a part time job |
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Posted 14th Mar 2012 at 21:59
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,838 Status: Offline |
Post #32
you are actually quite likely to lose performance as the ignition will have to be pegged back to prevent det due to the rather high dynamic compression you cet from fairly mild standard camshafts.________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 14th Mar 2012 at 22:13
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stan_306gti6
Forum Admin Location: Kent Registered: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 21,768 Status: Offline |
Post #33
Dave - Detonation is where the fuel/air mixture explodes outside the area normally occupied by the flame front. This can cause serious engine damage.Explosions which happen in the cylinder without the help of a spark plug is a symptom called "pre-ignition", as the mixture is igniting before firing of the spark plug is taking place. ________________________________________ "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"Peugeot 306 GTi-6 2000 (X), Moonstone |
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Posted 14th Mar 2012 at 22:46
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davewagon
Senior User Location: Corby / Northampton Registered: 21 Feb 2007 Posts: 889 Status: Offline |
Post #34
Well thankyou very much for the informative responses, I think i can park that idea under 'foolhardy' for the time being. Cheers guys ________________________________________ Team: Moonstone GTI-6™Team: ian7675 wrote: Remember....a 6 isn't just a car, it's a part time job |
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Posted 14th Mar 2012 at 22:49
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Teshboi1988
Regular Location: Dartford Registered: 29 Jan 2012 Posts: 131 Status: Offline |
Post #35
hmmmm ok right.... understand.. but what if there is no turbo or supercharger on there yet???? wood getting lower comp pistons effect it?________________________________________ phase 3 Hatchback V reg 5Door GTi6 |
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Posted 15th Mar 2012 at 08:16
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stan_306gti6
Forum Admin Location: Kent Registered: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 21,768 Status: Offline |
Post #36
Teshboi1988 wrote: hmmmm ok right.... understand.. but what if there is no turbo or supercharger on there yet???? wood getting lower comp pistons effect it? Yes of course it would. The ECU is mapped for an engine which runs a compression ratio of 10.8:1. Altering that ratio will affect the ignition timing, the strength of the fuel mixture and the usefulness of the energy created by ignition to name just a few things. And of course the ECU will be looking to run an engine which is standard... ________________________________________ "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"Peugeot 306 GTi-6 2000 (X), Moonstone |
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Posted 15th Mar 2012 at 09:41
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stan_306gti6
Forum Admin Location: Kent Registered: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 21,768 Status: Offline |
Post #37
What on Earth made you want to change the pistons anyway!?  ________________________________________ "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"Peugeot 306 GTi-6 2000 (X), Moonstone |
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Posted 15th Mar 2012 at 12:10
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Teshboi1988
Regular Location: Dartford Registered: 29 Jan 2012 Posts: 131 Status: Offline |
Post #38
I changed them coz i thought might as well if I'm stripping engine down, but as a noob i didn't know what to expect lol. ok right next question if I got pistons which lower comp. but if i don't have turbo yet can it still get mapped n run smoother?________________________________________ phase 3 Hatchback V reg 5Door GTi6 |
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Posted 15th Mar 2012 at 14:39
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stan_306gti6
Forum Admin Location: Kent Registered: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 21,768 Status: Offline |
Post #39
It can, but it won't make anywhere near the power it should and will be very lathargic down the bottom end. Really, you either need to add forced induction or put the original pistons back in.________________________________________ "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"Peugeot 306 GTi-6 2000 (X), Moonstone |
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Posted 15th Mar 2012 at 15:14
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Teshboi1988
Regular Location: Dartford Registered: 29 Jan 2012 Posts: 131 Status: Offline |
Post #40
how easy isit to put a turbo in???i see yours is supercharged... isit a gti6? or different engine? if it is gti how much u pay out it to get it supercharged? wel not gna change pistons so looks like a turbo or super is needed. is there anything u gta change 2 put a turbo in? cams buckets springs etc? or cn standard ones do? i will get pro cams next year or sank bt for now will it do?? and where cn i buy a turbo for it? and roughly how much am i looking at? even thou i changed pistons? i woodnt have lowered bhp wood now wood i ________________________________________ phase 3 Hatchback V reg 5Door GTi6 |
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Posted 15th Mar 2012 at 18:37
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mcfc1987
Seasoned Pro  Location: lincoln Registered: 13 May 2008 Posts: 1,478 Status: Offline |
Post #41
unless you want to spend 5k plus i would put the standard pistons back in and learn from your mistake. research is key with engine modssupercharger kits range from £4k up to £8k (low and high boost) turbo kits dont exist so you will have to do a lot of custom stuff and your looking at £5k+ ________________________________________ |
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Posted 15th Mar 2012 at 18:48
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Teshboi1988
Regular Location: Dartford Registered: 29 Jan 2012 Posts: 131 Status: Offline |
Post #42
ok just lookt at other threads and omg thats expensive... well you said it can be mapped asit is... but now where near it should be? wood i be getting atleast 168bhp or....________________________________________ phase 3 Hatchback V reg 5Door GTi6 |
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Posted 15th Mar 2012 at 19:09
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mcfc1987
Seasoned Pro Location: lincoln Registered: 13 May 2008 Posts: 1,478 Status: Offline |
Post #43
you wouldn't make standard power so no________________________________________ |
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Posted 15th Mar 2012 at 19:14
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anth
Seasoned Pro  Location: Colchester Registered: 04 Apr 2006 Posts: 3,651 Status: Offline |
Post #44
You can't run low compression pistons without forced induction it just won't work. Don't even bother.Get the standard pistons back in pocket them perhaps, then throw some pt81 cams in. Should make about 180 - 190 hp Or leave standard. |
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Posted 15th Mar 2012 at 20:28
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stan_306gti6
Forum Admin Location: Kent Registered: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 21,768 Status: Offline |
Post #45
You will have to put the original pistons back in I'm afraid. Fit a new set of rings by all means, that will be good and then you will be good to go.I know this is some hard work to do, but trust me, it won't run anywhere right with the combination you've got at present, and going forced induction is going to cost you thousands. Mine as you say is supercharged, I went through 3 different build stages to get where I am now, and I reckon just on the power mods to the car I've spent £30,000. I've spent another £30,000 on buying the thing, and upgrading pretty much everything else you can think of, and it's had a lot of paintwork in the time I've owned it too (8 years) to keep it mint.  So, £60,000 in 8 years to get a phenominal package. As you can see, these things don't come cheap. Just wack the original pistons back in and enjoy GTi power. ________________________________________ "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"Peugeot 306 GTi-6 2000 (X), Moonstone |
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Posted 15th Mar 2012 at 21:36
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davewagon
Senior User Location: Corby / Northampton Registered: 21 Feb 2007 Posts: 889 Status: Offline |
Post #46
stan_306gti6 wrote: So, £60,000 in 8 years to get a phenominal package. As you can see, these things don't come cheap. Gulp! Please God don't tell me this is your daily driver Stan?! I need a Euromillions win lol ________________________________________ Team: Moonstone GTI-6™Team: ian7675 wrote: Remember....a 6 isn't just a car, it's a part time job |
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Posted 15th Mar 2012 at 23:34
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stan_306gti6
Forum Admin Location: Kent Registered: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 21,768 Status: Offline |
Post #47
davewagon wrote: stan_306gti6 wrote: So, £60,000 in 8 years to get a phenominal package. As you can see, these things don't come cheap. Gulp! Please God don't tell me this is your daily driver Stan?! I need a Euromillions win lol No mate. She never has been and never will be. Currently tucked up in one of my garages having a nice rest for the foreseeable. I know it sounds a lot of money, but it has been spread over 8 years and I have thoroughly enjoyed my time driving her and looking after her. I would never consider selling the '6' but for now she just sits there looking pretty and having a year or two off. ________________________________________ "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"Peugeot 306 GTi-6 2000 (X), Moonstone |
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Posted 15th Mar 2012 at 23:44
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davewagon
Senior User Location: Corby / Northampton Registered: 21 Feb 2007 Posts: 889 Status: Offline |
Post #48
You're not that far from me really, we really ought to try and arrange some sort of East Midlands meet, there is plenty of us?! ________________________________________ Team: Moonstone GTI-6™Team: ian7675 wrote: Remember....a 6 isn't just a car, it's a part time job |
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Posted 15th Mar 2012 at 23:49
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stan_306gti6
Forum Admin Location: Kent Registered: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 21,768 Status: Offline |
Post #49
Sounds like a cracking idea. I'm not far from you at all really, Leicester is an hour, Corby I can get to in 35 mins, Northants about 25 mins.________________________________________ "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"Peugeot 306 GTi-6 2000 (X), Moonstone |
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Posted 15th Mar 2012 at 23:52
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Teshboi1988
Regular Location: Dartford Registered: 29 Jan 2012 Posts: 131 Status: Offline |
Post #50
right ok howa bout if i put high compression pistons in??the thing is i bored it out so standard pistons wont fit no more.... ________________________________________ phase 3 Hatchback V reg 5Door GTi6 |
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Posted 16th Mar 2012 at 07:14
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