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displaying posts 26 to 42 of 42
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| Author | Subject: Throttle bodies... base map? |
 fordygti
Seasoned Pro  Location: Walpole St Andrew Registered: 07 Dec 2009 Posts: 1,257 Status: Offline |
Post #26
Na i aint going to mess aroun with the map, it aint worth it.Id only mess something up and do some damage which could have been avoidable. ________________________________________ 98 onyx black 306 Rallye53 Nissan Primastar silver (work horse) 58 black Volvo c30 sport |
 Posted 5th Dec 2011 at 20:23
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daveyboy
aka Jim Davey  Location: Southampton Registered: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 8,648 Status: Offline |
Post #27
fordygti wrote: Na i aint going to mess aroun with the map, it aint worth it. Id only mess something up and do some damage which could have been avoidable. Good man, by all means fire it up and make sure it runs, maybe balance the bodies and set up the idle if you are confident with the software (Pretty easy with Omex, not sure about other ECUs) just to make sure it will start up ok when it gets to the mappers, the more work they have to do getting the basics right the more they will charge you, or if tyou are on a fixed price the less time they will spend on the actual mapping of the car. Be prepared for it to cost more than they quote if they have to do lots of extra little jobs, like zeroing the throttle pot, or sorting out dodgy wiring, also make sure you can actually get full throttle and that the linkage is adjusted to that it does'nt run out of travel and put strain on the throttle cable and snap it etc. Basicly get it as together as you can, give it a servioce too, plenty of water in the rad and make sure all your hoses etc./ are in good nick as the cooling system will be stretched to the limit on the rollers as no matter what they have in the way of fans they can't get close to replicating 100mph airflow through the rad. Make sure that your CV joint gaiters are tip top, if they fail and fling grease all over the rollers you won't be mr popular, same goes for leaky sumps/crank seals. Finally, make sure you don't have any screws or bulges in the tyres and that they are correctly inflated before you set of to the mapping session, it could make all the difference. btween driving away happy or trailering it home down £400 and still having to go back to finish the job a month later and shell out half as much again  ________________________________________ R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.Some of my services: (See my for sale threads) Engine mount/chassis repair Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION Harness bars |
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Posted 5th Dec 2011 at 20:46
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic  Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,839 Status: Offline |
Post #28
as standard Jenveys linkage does not allow full throttle for some bizarre reason, you'll need to modify this, also the best way to get them all balanced properly is to blank off the balance screws and play with the butterflies, have seen some twisted spindles and off-centre butterflies!!who charges £400 for mapping? I plan to ask someone a little cheaper than that who knows XU's damn well  ________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 5th Dec 2011 at 21:06
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daveyboy
aka Jim Davey Location: Southampton Registered: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 8,648 Status: Offline |
Post #29
welshpug! wrote: as standard Jenveys linkage does not allow full throttle for some bizarre reason, you'll need to modify this, also the best way to get them all balanced properly is to blank off the balance screws and play with the butterflies, have seen some twisted spindles and off-centre butterflies!! who charges £400 for mapping? I plan to ask someone a little cheaper than that who knows XU's damn well I'd not mess with the throttle travel on the Jenveys, they released some data that showed they actually flow more when the throttle plate was'nt quite fully open, something to do with the turbulence around the spindle, just make sure they fully reach the stops. And you get what you pay for, Track and Road did my mapping and they usually want at least two hours, plus a test drive and a few tweaks after the road test to do it properly, they wanted £400 and £50 an hour each fopr two skilled men to work on the car and do a first rate job made sense to me. They will be getting my race car to map up when/if it's done and I fully expect it to cost half as much again as I'll be running a more complex 8 injector setup. Mind you the won't be spending so much time on calibrating the lower end of the rev range as it just won't spend much of it's life in that zone in a track car. ________________________________________ R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.Some of my services: (See my for sale threads) Engine mount/chassis repair Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION Harness bars |
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Posted 5th Dec 2011 at 21:14
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prism7guy
Seasoned Pro  Location: DoncastAAAAARGH Registered: 13 Jan 2008 Posts: 4,640 Status: Offline |
Post #30
Do you not bother with the run-in procedure then Jim with new pistons/rings in a freshly bored block? I was reading the other day about doing like 50 miles then oil change, 100 miles then oil change etc within certain rev ranges etc. ________________________________________ Goldie the track car. |
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Posted 5th Dec 2011 at 21:28
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daveyboy
aka Jim Davey Location: Southampton Registered: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 8,648 Status: Offline |
Post #31
No, I wont even start mine befor it goes on the rollers as they will have to run it in for me. The problem is the new cams need to run at high speed 2.5K rpm + for a good ten minutes to bed in, but the rings and pistons need load right away to seat and avoid glazing, so you need an experienced mapper who can input some good baseline figures into the ecu before he starts it if you are to have any chance at getting through the bedding in process successfully.________________________________________ R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.Some of my services: (See my for sale threads) Engine mount/chassis repair Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION Harness bars |
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Posted 5th Dec 2011 at 21:37
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prism7guy
Seasoned Pro Location: DoncastAAAAARGH Registered: 13 Jan 2008 Posts: 4,640 Status: Offline |
Post #32
The cams i have have already been run in on a different engine, kind of lucky for me i guess.  ________________________________________ Goldie the track car. |
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Posted 5th Dec 2011 at 21:39
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fordygti
Seasoned Pro Location: Walpole St Andrew Registered: 07 Dec 2009 Posts: 1,257 Status: Offline |
Post #33
If anything ill need to tweak the throttle linkages a tad. They are quite fidely i thought.Thats one bit it didnt enjoy doing. Well i just need to find time to get round to doing the base map and then will see about getting the map sorted. I made a phone call to a recomended mapper today so the plan is in motion atleast. At the moment the butterflys are slightly open, is that the way it should be? Because surly if they were closed on idle it would cut out due to not taking in any air? Just to clarify, i have asked this question before but do a need a vaccum feed to the top of the fuel pressure regulator? Thanks. ________________________________________ 98 onyx black 306 Rallye53 Nissan Primastar silver (work horse) 58 black Volvo c30 sport |
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Posted 5th Dec 2011 at 21:47
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rallyeash
Seasoned Pro  Location: Devizes Registered: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 4,424 Status: Offline |
Post #34
quote: [quote="fordygti" Just to clarify, i have asked this question before but do a need a vaccum feed to the top of the fuel pressure regulator? Thanks. no ________________________________________ 230 hp 2.1 16v XU 205 rallye on jenveys Project thread here309 3dr K20 Type R |
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Posted 5th Dec 2011 at 21:57
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fordygti
Seasoned Pro Location: Walpole St Andrew Registered: 07 Dec 2009 Posts: 1,257 Status: Offline |
Post #35
Thanks ash, short but sweet. ________________________________________ 98 onyx black 306 Rallye53 Nissan Primastar silver (work horse) 58 black Volvo c30 sport |
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Posted 5th Dec 2011 at 22:01
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,839 Status: Offline |
Post #36
pugs need proper WOT Jim, Sandy told me that whilst "adjusting" some at a Dyno session on a mate's 205gti6 a few weeks back Some other engines like the XE IIRC that will work on, but not the XU+TU+EW's. Quality of the workmanship is one reason Sandy and Colin rate the Keihin bodies so highly, never any issues like that with them, not really surprising from a Honda subsidiary Dan and myself were there all day and cost £320 iirc, he will do the whole map, even for a race car. We also went for a drive about for nearly an hour with sandy keeping an eye on the Wideband with the laptop plugged in doing more live mapping. ________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 5th Dec 2011 at 22:01
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daveyboy
aka Jim Davey Location: Southampton Registered: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 8,648 Status: Offline |
Post #37
welshpug! wrote: pugs need proper WOT Jim, Sandy told me that whilst "adjusting" some at a Dyno session on a mate's 205gti6 a few weeks back Some other engines like the XE IIRC that will work on, but not the XU+TU+EW's. Quality of the workmanship is one reason Sandy and Colin rate the Keihin bodies so highly, never any issues like that with them, not really surprising from a Honda subsidiary Dan and myself were there all day and cost £320 iirc, he will do the whole map, even for a race car. We also went for a drive about for nearly an hour with sandy keeping an eye on the Wideband with the laptop plugged in doing more live mapping. As long as they did a before and after check and found an improvement in power/flow after the adjustment then they must be right, if they modified it because it just looked odd and assumed it must be wrong then maybe they made matters worse? Price sounds very reasonable though, I have'nt made any commitment as to where I'll get it mapped yet so I'll bear that in mind ________________________________________ R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.Some of my services: (See my for sale threads) Engine mount/chassis repair Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION Harness bars |
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Posted 6th Dec 2011 at 13:21
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,839 Status: Offline |
Post #38
I would imagine Sandy has tested this, I can't remember if he said he had but he did make a point of doing this (whilst straightening the twisted spindles and getting the butterflies centred as much as possible and winding the idle screws all the way in, he did say they would usually blank them off totally and just use the throttle stops, easy enough with the high quality o.e bike stuff but rather moretime consuming on aftermarker low volume kit like jenveys)There would have been no other reason to take the linkage apart to check this, I'd trust him given the attention to detail he takes on everything I've seen He maps most if not all of John Read's (of JRE) engines, 2.4-2.5 litre 300 ish bhp XE's and ford based engines nowadays, saw one in the dyno cell when we were down there  beats a millington  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVN7BHjBtAQ that's Sandy's youtube channel. ________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 6th Dec 2011 at 14:09
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daveyboy
aka Jim Davey Location: Southampton Registered: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 8,648 Status: Offline |
Post #39
Thats quite an engine looked very well prepared.________________________________________ R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.Some of my services: (See my for sale threads) Engine mount/chassis repair Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION Harness bars |
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Posted 6th Dec 2011 at 15:10
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phillipm
Seasoned Pro  Location: Rotherham Registered: 15 Oct 2006 Posts: 20,607 Status: Offline |
Post #40
Usually full airflow through a throttle body is when the spindles are within ~7* of being fully open - because the bow wave off the front of the butterfly reattaches around the spindle on the lower half at that - however, it does depend on the diameter and the design of the spindle plate, and the inlet tract shape.________________________________________ - Bespoke rollcages/additions/adjustments. Half cages right up to complete custom spaceframes - MSA/FIA spec, CDS, ROPT, T45, etc - PM meEmail me! Custom-made polybushes available - need an odd size or fitment? - anything from batch work to one-off pieces. |
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Posted 6th Dec 2011 at 15:14
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daveyboy
aka Jim Davey Location: Southampton Registered: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 8,648 Status: Offline |
Post #41
phillipm wrote: Usually full airflow through a throttle body is when the spindles are within ~7* of being fully open - because the bow wave off the front of the butterfly reattaches around the spindle on the lower half at that - however, it does depend on the diameter and the design of the spindle plate, and the inlet tract shape. I had a feeling if might be flow separation, I'd be keen to try a before and after test when I get mine ready. ________________________________________ R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.Some of my services: (See my for sale threads) Engine mount/chassis repair Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION Harness bars |
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Posted 6th Dec 2011 at 17:15
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fordygti
Seasoned Pro Location: Walpole St Andrew Registered: 07 Dec 2009 Posts: 1,257 Status: Offline |
Post #42
It starts!!!! I didnt want to start at first, then with a bit of percervirance and a lot of smoke it fired! And then i would have helped if i had locked the map before unpluging the laptop.  If anyone is doin this, when you need to 9 to 15 pin serial lead, its easy to make its only 5 cables, dont buy one from dta because it will cost you an arm and a leg! Its going to get mapped saturday so hopefully i should be driving it away a happy bunny! ________________________________________ 98 onyx black 306 Rallye53 Nissan Primastar silver (work horse) 58 black Volvo c30 sport |
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Posted 11th Dec 2011 at 17:04
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