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Author Subject: rust
rec bri

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Post #1
So, I have a couple of weeks off work, so i decided to go all "coskev" on my car and paint the wheel arches and under body. It was after jacking the car up i found this ...



any thoughts ?
was planning on just wire brushing to clean metal and painting with hammerite
Posted 20th Sep 2011 at 17:24
cwspellowe

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Location: Calderbank

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Post #2
Looks like the majority of that will be underseal, just scrape off what you can and paint over it Thumbs up

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Posted 20th Sep 2011 at 18:03
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

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Post #3
underseal? LOL you need some fresh metal welding in there!!!

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Posted 20th Sep 2011 at 18:07
prism7guy

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Post #4
Watch out for those fuel lines when welding though. LOL

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Posted 20th Sep 2011 at 18:53
ablister

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Post #5
lol...underseal... Big grin

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Posted 20th Sep 2011 at 19:33
cwspellowe

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Post #6
Laugh f*ck off, i've only got one eye at the minute! Looked superficial til i looked properly Doh

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Posted 20th Sep 2011 at 21:30
rec bri

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Post #7
welshpug! wrote:
need some fresh metal welding in there!!!


don't really like the sound of that.
I'll scrape it clean tomorrow and have better look, hope your wrong (but if it needs it, it gets it)
Posted 21st Sep 2011 at 00:57
phillipm

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Post #8
Quite common for them to go there if the outlet gets dented/blocked, it's the drain through the chassis.

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Posted 21st Sep 2011 at 01:08
daveyboy

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Post #9
Or more often they get mangled by some Kwik-Kunt fitter jacking it up in the wrong place, damaging the underseal in the process and allowing rot to get a foothold. Both my previous Rallye and current one have suffered this at the hands of mindless f*ckwits. Rant endeth...

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Posted 21st Sep 2011 at 11:50
Lecktorious

aka G.

Location: Edinburgh

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Post #10
Mine has been jacked up on the chassis rails previously, got me worried now Sad

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Posted 21st Sep 2011 at 20:23
rec bri

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Post #11
Two wire bush heads, and a very warm drill and i have this ..





showed a mate the pictures to day, and he was saying i could just clean the rust off and weld it back up, etch primer, paint and under-seal.

my new question is
am i wasting my time(get it cut out and new metal in)
or
should i crack on with it ?
Posted 21st Sep 2011 at 20:45
beez_neez_gt

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Post #12
You will need to sandblast that area as it has lots of bubbles steel etc. If not then use some POR 15 rust paint, iv used it recently and like it a lot, then under-seal it all up.

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Posted 21st Sep 2011 at 20:54
rec bri

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Post #13
I understand if I'm to carry on, which for the time being I intend too do, there's still a lot to be done (have more brush heads coming up tonight)
but in my eyes its cleaning up quite well, maybe I'm just hopeful but i await the veiws of the heavy hitters.
Posted 21st Sep 2011 at 20:56
rec bri

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Post #14
beez_neez_gt wrote:
You will need to sandblast that area as it has lots of bubbles steel etc. If not then use some POR 15 rust paint, iv used it recently and like it a lot, then under-seal it all up.


Not in a position to sandblast (was planning to loosen with a screw driver and wire brush the hell out of it)
As for POR 15 rust seal looks good, but would hammerite direct to rust not do the same thing ?
Posted 21st Sep 2011 at 21:15
beez_neez_gt

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Post #15
No, hammerite is commercial rubbish, use proper rust paint like por15. Iv done lots of rust prep and found that primed up bubbled steel like yours went rusty quite quickly when car was left outside, however the smooth clean steel did not. The rust hides within the crevices you cant see and with the dark nights its harder to see it.

Its very hard and smooth por 15 is when dry.

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Posted 21st Sep 2011 at 21:48
rec bri

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Post #16
Cheers I'll source some in the morning, thanks for info
Posted 21st Sep 2011 at 21:56
beez_neez_gt

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Post #17
I bought some from FROST (classic car company), not sure where else its sold.

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Posted 21st Sep 2011 at 22:09
rec bri

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Post #18
beez_neez_gt wrote:
I bought some from FROST (classic car company), not sure where else its sold.


which product did you use ? as on ebay there seems to be many different brands, I'm assuming there are all much the same as POR 15 sames to on them all
Posted 21st Sep 2011 at 22:32
rec bri

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Post #19
Is it worth fixing then as apposed to replacing ?
Posted 21st Sep 2011 at 23:16
beez_neez_gt

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Post #20
HERE is a direct link. No need to buy metal ready as yours has enough dints and rough surface for it to stick and gel too and all loose rust has gone. All thats needed is a good clean with some panel wipe, then clean over with dry paper toweling to get rid of any wipe still remaining. Then its ready to paint and get a smooth strong paint that will stick.

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Pick a Bogey, buy a Pug.

Black 306 GTI 6 Standard, was 60k mileage, bargain!!

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Posted 21st Sep 2011 at 23:17
beez_neez_gt

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Post #21
The first pic looks different to the derusted one, that one has a hole the top one does not ?? If there has been too much metal taken away then yes some chassis welding will be needed to achieve its original strength in that area. Pics dont help much tbh.

The bit where the rusty holes are will need a small square plate welded up but thats it as far as i can see. Remove a square section away from around the rusty holes area. Apply some weld primer in that area after more derusting, then weld a square bit of fresh steel with a flap as to weld against the main part. Then paint it all with por 15 and metal ready for a proper job well done Thumbs up

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Pug fee`ver,

Pick a Bogey, buy a Pug.

Black 306 GTI 6 Standard, was 60k mileage, bargain!!

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Posted 21st Sep 2011 at 23:21
mik

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Post #22
I used POR-15 in exactly the same area (luckily I've got no holes) and the rust is bubbling through it. Same with the sill and chassis rails. Prep was to wire brush and sand back to sound metal, but I did not remove all the rust as the instructions suggested that was all that was required - and that rust gave a good key for the POR-15. In any case, now I will have to scrape it all off and repaint. Have already removed it all from the boot floor.

While it might well be possible to get POR-15 to work properly (and you can find testimonials for it - but you can also find at least as many against it), everything needs to be _exactly_ right, and the blurb in the instructions is misleading in my view. E.g. on the one hand it says things along the lines of needing rust to give a good key and goes on straight over rust, but then it contradicts itself and talks about needing Marine Clean and Metal Ready (as far as I can see Metal Ready is some kind of converter somewhat similar to Hammerite Kurust).

On the plus side, POR-15 was very nice to use and it covered very well. Looked great when finished too - just didn't look so great a few months later.

The blurb says that it will not stick to previously-painted surfaces (I can confirm that) and will not stick to smooth steel without Metal Ready either. It also needs another POR-15 product ("Tie-Coat" ) if you want to over-coat it - which you will need to do as it changes colour (i.e. fades) in UV light. Adding the Marine Clean, Metal Ready and Tie Coat (if over-painting) it gets very expensive.

After my POR-15 failure experience I googled it and there are pages of raging debate about it on various forums here and in the US.

I ended up using Bilt Hamber Electrox primer (a heavy duty zinc primer which provides, like other high-zinc primers, cathodic rust prevention - a well-proven corrosion fighting concept on ships etc) after wire brushing, sanding and using Bilt Hamber De-ox gel to remove all rust back to shiny metal. I will over coat the zinc with a gloss black enamel which will help stop the salt sticking to the underside of the car - currently thinking about some kind of overpaintable stone chip between Electrox and enamel in vulnerable areas.

Some people may well have got excellent results with POR-15. My experience was that I did not, and my comments reflect this.

On another note, the chassis rails and the bits in your pic seem to rust more than the rest of the floor - same on mine. I've removed all the dodgy underseal in those parts behind the front wheels and the rust was under the underseal. Chassis rails (not the sill ones) seem quite soft and I would not use them for jacking.

My thread here: http://www.306gti6.com/forum/showthread.php?id=136766&page=3

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Posted 21st Sep 2011 at 23:49
beez_neez_gt

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Post #23
I use electrox but wont ever use it directly over rust or that area, bilt hamber are not all that clear on their instructions tbh, & not just that product. Removal is the only real way of combating it fully. It says on its instructions not to use rust converter like kurust, so why would metal ready be the same type of stuff ?

I agree, used well it does work.

ps, rust converters are not worth the time or money, elbow grease is far better.

I found THIS it comes as a kit form, wish i found that when i got mine LOL

________________________________________

Pug fee`ver,

Pick a Bogey, buy a Pug.

Black 306 GTI 6 Standard, was 60k mileage, bargain!!

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Posted 22nd Sep 2011 at 00:51
mik

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Post #24
I should have been clearer - removing rust with hard work and power tools is the only way forward, not coating it with things that purport to encapsulate or neutralise the rust, as POR-15 says to do. I spent 2 days under the rear of my car last week scraping, chiseling, sanding and putting remover on so the electrox went on over clean metal.

Converters are OK to neutralise invisible specks on otherwise clean shiny metal before painting, they will not penetrate rust to any degree, especially not the thick scale that we get under our salt-sprayed cars here in the UK.

Ref Metal Ready - read the wording in the instructions and blurb. It sounds much like a converter to me. https://www.por15.com/Data%20Sheets/metalreadyreg.pdf

POR-15 probably works OK on clean but pitted metal. In that case it should say so on the packaging/instructions.

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Posted 22nd Sep 2011 at 09:24
rec bri

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Post #25
welshpug! wrote:
underseal? LOL you need some fresh metal welding in there!!!


This is right in my situation

Posted 22nd Sep 2011 at 15:52

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