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Author Subject: Goldie the track car
prism7guy

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Post #576
like Mei said, loom is almost identical from what I've seen just a different plug, I think the only real change is to now have semi sequential injectors so I need to change one bit of the loom. Fortunately for me I ran all four injectors wires into the cabin before connecting them to the one wire that went to the ecu and labelled each of the wires so that should be easy to sort.

I'm not sure about the old ecu, maybe it could be repaired or maybe the parts required aren't available anymore. Oh well.

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Goldie the track car.
Posted 28th Aug 2015 at 10:10
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

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Post #577
I'm running all mine off one trigger, one wire in the loom till it splits within a few inches of the injectors, makes the loom much neater.

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Posted 28th Aug 2015 at 11:01
prism7guy

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Post #578
Yeah that would have been a good idea but I wasn't sure whether to keep the wires seperate incase I ever decide to go for a more advanced ecu in the future. The looms all done now I just need to wire in the tacho wire to the tacho then it's all done. Smile

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Goldie the track car.
Posted 28th Aug 2015 at 12:01
prism7guy

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Post #579
Small update. New ecu arrived.

IMG_5119 by Steve Count, on Flickr

Changed some of the wiring on the old loom to suit the new ecu, ran the diagnostic tests and the coils, injectors and fans all worked as should be, loaded in the XE base map, set all the settings needed in DTASWin, tried starting and nothing.
Tried looking at the crank oscilloscope and realised the ecu was dieing when cranking over as DTASWin kept telling me the ecu was disconnected whilst cranking. Temporarily connected the wire i'm using for the switched live for the ecu relay to the main live point in the engine bay and tried again, this time the car was trying to start.

Eventually got it running, it won't idle with the throttle closed at the moment, but holding the throttle open it will run, albeit quite roughly but thats to be expected.
Seeing as i dont have a wideband lambda sensor or any other way to monitor the exhaust gasses other than the lambda reading in the dta software ive not changed much, i had a little play but seemed to make it worse so returned to stock values.

I ran the engine up to temperature and the fans kicked in, for some reason the coolant and oil temp gauges in the clocks dont seem to be working, but thats an issue to look at another day.

I probably shouldnt have stayed in the car as long as i did as i could barely keep my eyes open with all the fumes, and i forgot to get a proper video but i saved a short one from snapchat for anyone that wants to hear a little whine Laugh

Am i right in thinking that on light throttle opening i should see slight vacuum in the manifold? I didnt want to rev the engine too hard to look at the boost but it almost always seemed to be in vacuum when slightly revving it under no load. Dunno

IMG_5120 by Steve Count, on Flickr

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Goldie the track car.
Posted 10th Dec 2017 at 18:40
phillipm

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Post #580
Yeah, it will be, that's fine.

WRT the map, you should be able to dial it fairly close by ear on the fuelling if you can get it to idle steady enough to fine tune.

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Posted 3rd Sep 2015 at 22:15
prism7guy

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Post #581
I opened up the fueling map and was playing about with the numbers in the area the engine was hunting in, like upto 30% throttle and around 1500rpm and was increasing the values then hitting F4 to update the map but each change seemed to make it worse. I might have another play tomorrow afternoon after work then, i've got to give my dad his laptop back this weekend as he needs it for work now. Doh

I'm going to get it booked in for mapping asap, there's a trackday coming up at Cadwell that i've got my eye on Big grin

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Goldie the track car.
Posted 3rd Sep 2015 at 22:36
allanallen

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Post #582
Did you manage to get the e48 map in Steve?

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Posted 4th Sep 2015 at 06:43
prism7guy

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Post #583
To be honest Allan i didnt try loading the E48 map, i assumed it would be incompatiable with the S40.

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Goldie the track car.
Posted 4th Sep 2015 at 06:52
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

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Post #584
30% throttle for 1500? I need about 5 LOL

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Posted 4th Sep 2015 at 08:13
prism7guy

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Post #585
Small update time.

After weighing up my options of how i'm going to get the car to the mappers and get it MOT'd before hand i decided to buy an AEM wideband lambda sensor so i could get the fueling something like myself and keep the ignition timing retarded to avoid the possibility of detonation/knock.

I stuck the gauge in the easiest place as i didnt fancy having to remake the fascia plate in the dash, should do its job for the time being.

IMG_5134 by Steve Count, on Flickr

I also adapted my old ecu cradle to suit the S40. The loom is now far from how i'd have liked it as i had to chop some of it to adapt it from the E48. Another one of them jobs that i'll get round to neatening at some point in the future.
The ecu is sat on some adhesive foam and held down with elastic bands, i didn't read that this is the best way to do it in the s series manual but it's what i read somewhere for the E48 and decided it wouldn't hurt to try and protect this one from vibrations or harsh bumps.

IMG_5133 by Steve Count, on Flickr

My old laptop died several years ago so i was using my dads work one but he needed that back a few weeks ago. Fortunately my workmate gave me his old laptop but it turns out that that has an expresscard slot not pcmcia so i've just ordered an expresscard to rs232 adapter card. Hopefully that will arrive tomorrow so i can get it out and tweak the fueling maps so it's not going to run too lean or get bore wash on the way to it's MOT this friday.

Mapping is booked for the 24th. Hopefully that all goes ok as i've booked myself on at Blyton park on the 10th of October. Smile

Just a question for those who know a little more about setting up ecu's than me; Obviously the car doesn't idle with the throttle body closed completely so i've opened it a little to allow some air in for idle, should i register this as the throttle closed point in DTASWin rather than the open percentage it currently shows?

I've pulled the dump valve off the hose and fitted a filter for the time being so there's no chance i'm going to start boosting whilst driving before mapping, don't want to risk it getting too lean or any other associated problems.

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Goldie the track car.
Posted 10th Dec 2017 at 18:39
phillipm

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Post #586
No, set the stop/limits in the software with the throttle completely shut and then open it to have a few percent showing at idle - that way if you ever need to adjust the idle speed for some reason you won't have to recalibrate your throttle body and throw all your light load mapping off.

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Posted 15th Sep 2015 at 22:51
eddy_gti6

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Post #587
That hazard switch is abit wonky Laugh my ass off
is that silver duct running under the dash just feed cold air into the car?

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Posted 15th Sep 2015 at 23:08
prism7guy

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Post #588
Cheers Phill, i wasnt sure as it seems like i need a reasonable amount of throttle to get it to idle (or did with the dump valve in).

Yeah i was in a rush to get them photos so didnt straighten the hazard switch Laugh
Yeah that ducting runs from where the normal heater gets its fresh air feed and i've just run it to the back of one of the dash vents so i can choose whether to open it and have fresh air and give it a bit of direction. Thumbs up

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Goldie the track car.
Posted 16th Sep 2015 at 06:55
phillipm

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Post #589
3-4% ish?

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Posted 16th Sep 2015 at 09:20
prism7guy

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Post #590
It seems to idle around the 10% area.
Just taken it out to do a bit of light throttle mapping and got it somewhere close (12-15:1) upto around 2500rpm then the 'charger decided to seize Doh
It was red hot so I'm not sure what to do now. I limped home after taking the belt off and just running on the battery.
I'm suspecting that I maybe shouldn't have fitted the small bolt in the end of the rotor shaft which may have pulled the rotor up against the end of the charger housing, although I used feeler gauges and shim washers between the pulley plate and shaft so it was in the middle of its float Dunno

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Goldie the track car.
Posted 16th Sep 2015 at 20:00
phillipm

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Post #591
Doh:

Might be why it needed so much throttle to idle Big grin

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Posted 16th Sep 2015 at 21:43
prism7guy

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Post #592
Possibly, you mean the parasitic drag on the crank?

It's strange though because the 'charger rotated freely after i reassembled it, though i noticed it got quite warm the other day when getting the car up to temperature, i'm beginning to think that as it heats up and expands it must be rubbing on itself somewhere.
I'm going to get a shorter aux belt tomorrow after work so i can just run the alternator in order to get the car to the MOT place on friday, i'll also whip the 'charger off and strip it for inspection.
It flat out refused to turn over earlier so the belt was just slipping round the pulley creating plenty of smoke, just hope i've not completely ruined it although i'm betting i have Doh

I think it could be the small bolt in the end of the shaft that could have caused it to pull one of the rotors into the housing, before i fitted that there was a small amount of play between the splines on the shaft and the female splined socket from the old clutch face plate, i put some shim washers between them in order to cut out the play as i thought that would be bad news for the rotors/gears inside the charger. I got my feeler gauges out and i'm pretty sure i got the plate bolted so it was in the middle of the potential float of the pulley. I guess i'll find out tomorrow evening when i strip it down, i know it's got hot enough to start melting the nylon pad that i put between the splined plate adapter and the pulley (to act as a bit of a vibration damper).

EDIT: And even without the 'charger being run by the engine, it only just likes to idle at around 10% throttle, really not sure why it's so bad, im wondering if its due to the oversized injectors (440cc) not liking the small amount of spray they have to do? Dunno

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Goldie the track car.
Posted 16th Sep 2015 at 22:45
phillipm

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Post #593
How much timing are you running at idle?

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Posted 16th Sep 2015 at 23:27
prism7guy

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Post #594
I'm using the Vauxhall XE 2.0 base map for timing, although i tweaked some settings for the low throttle % opening, i'll get a screenshot of it when i get in from work tonight.

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Goldie the track car.
Posted 17th Sep 2015 at 06:54
stef306

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Post #595
i find this interesting as mine is set so no throttle is 0% as sandy set it. I run 13-15deg at idle seems to suit mine well. Sandy did give his reasoning's for the tps set up but i cant remember full details. But he was amendment that s/c engines should use tps as load.

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1990 205 gti6 supercharged
Posted 17th Sep 2015 at 13:32
prism7guy

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Post #596
I'm sure I've got my map set so tps is load.
I had a thought earlier, could it be that the charger doesn't like running in near vacuum conitions due to the second throttle body causing it to overheat?
Didn't think it would be so much of an issue but my workmate suggested it. I'm going to remove it tonight and strip it down to see what's up with it, think it might be charger#2 time Doh

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Goldie the track car.
Posted 17th Sep 2015 at 16:37
prism7guy

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Post #597
Also, is there anything special about the dump valves needed for supercharged setups as I've seen it mentioned that they have softer springs in them? Mines just a £30 ebay special Laugh

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Goldie the track car.
Posted 17th Sep 2015 at 16:39
stef306

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Post #598
I never got involved with 2 bodies tbh so can't really help but I've gone to a tial sports q 50mm bov with their sc spring in. Holds the valve open longer so you don't get throttle surges made all the difference to mine. If your using 2 bodies there shouldn't be any need for bovs surely.

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1990 205 gti6 supercharged
Posted 17th Sep 2015 at 16:49
prism7guy

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Post #599
Well i've spent the evening stripping the car to see what the issue is. Here are the pics:

IMG_5141 by Steve Count, on Flickr

It got pretty hot last night, cant remember if i made the damper/spacer out of nylon or acetal but it partially melted it.

IMG_5142 by Steve Count, on Flickr


IMG_5138 by Steve Count, on Flickr

It's pretty clear what the issue is once i had the 'charger off.

IMG_5145 by Steve Count, on Flickr

IMG_5148 by Steve Count, on Flickr

IMG_5147 by Steve Count, on Flickr

Other end appears to be fine

IMG_5151 by Steve Count, on Flickr

Now i've got to decide what caused the issue. I'm pretty sure there wasn't any sort of gasket fitted between the main housing which the rotors sit in and the bit of the housing which the rotors are in and secured in place with the bearings/gears.
The 'charger rotated freely after i put it together before fitting it, so now i'm unsure whether the rotors were sucked towards the inlet end of the housing by having the second throttle body before the inlet creating some vacuum, or whether it was caused by the fact that i bolted my pulley adapter plate to the rotor shaft which may have then pushed the rotor down into the housing once it started to warm up and things started expanding.

For reference, the throttle body before the inlet was held open a little on idle, so there should have been the possibility of a small amount of air flow.

IMG_5144 by Steve Count, on Flickr

When it started to seize up i was actually driving the car so that second throttle body would have been open wider than the above image, so in theory there shouldn't have been any vacuum.

I'm part tempted to remove the butterfly from the second throttle body and drill some holes in it to allow more air to flow even when the butterfly is in the closed position, then allow the dump valve to take care of any excess boost build up as a result.
The alternative would be to buy a recirculating dump valve and have that fitted, though space is very tight so trying to plumb that in would prove difficult with the current boost pipe routing.


As promised, here are the fueling and timing maps which are on the ecu. I haven't touched the timing map from the base XE map, i know it ran better in the past when i tweaked it but seeing as i'm now needing to drive the car i daren't change it much incase i advance anything too much and cause any engine damage, that'd be just my luck at the moment. LOL

IMG_5158 by Steve Count, on Flickr

IMG_5156 by Steve Count, on Flickr

After work i picked up a new aux belt just so i can get the alternator running without the 'charger fitted, need to limp it to the MOT station tomorrow afternoon.

IMG_5140 by Steve Count, on Flickr

Might aswell end the post with a question, i reckon the current charger is scrap, but just wanted other peoples opinions. It has crossed my mind to try and fettle the housing and end of the rotors so there's no contact but i think the gouging will mean it wont create as much boost as desired.
I'm booked in for mapping a week today so need to make the decision whether to buy another 'charger and try to get it fitted and sorted in time or whether to cancel the mapping. Opinions please. Smile

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Goldie the track car.
Posted 10th Dec 2017 at 18:50
phillipm

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Post #600
Opening the throttle further in front of the charger more than the one downstream will just build up more heat in the whole system as the charger is compressing all that air then trying to force it through the closed throttle downstream, they work fine under vacuum anyway so that's not the issue.

That's quite a lot of damage to the bearing seats, is there any possibility you've got your clearances wrong there and it's bearings that have seized and pulled the rotors into the housing rather than vice versa?

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Posted 17th Sep 2015 at 20:06

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