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displaying posts 1 to 25 of 29
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| Author | Subject: How To Rotate Camshaft On Bench? |
 mikebee
Regular  Location: Northampton Registered: 17 Aug 2010 Posts: 122 Status: Offline |
Post #1
Just got my refurbished head today. Have also refurbished the lifters and refitted everything.The question I have is how to rotate the camshafts while the head is on the bench so I can lock the timing pins in before I put it on the car? Obviously I need to be careful so I don't bend any valves against each other....  |
 Posted 2nd Oct 2010 at 02:05
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coskev
Seasoned Pro  Location: Oswestry Registered: 01 Nov 2009 Posts: 3,132 Status: Offline |
Post #2
The cams should be fitted in a certain position Theres pics on here somewhere,then you only need to move them slightly to get correct timing position  Do not rotate fully  ________________________________________ Red GTB1756 powered Fabia VRS daily driver,LBSC Gti6 eater........Mac1 ZR R1 kit car build in progress. |
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Posted 2nd Oct 2010 at 03:25
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mikebee
Regular Location: Northampton Registered: 17 Aug 2010 Posts: 122 Status: Offline |
Post #3
Have done that and they're only a small rotation away from where they need to be. Just don't want to rotate on the sprocket bolt as it would over-torque it. The Haynes for other engines says to use a special Pug tool? |
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Posted 2nd Oct 2010 at 13:18
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mikebee
Regular Location: Northampton Registered: 17 Aug 2010 Posts: 122 Status: Offline |
Post #4
Anyone? Am really stuck with this. |
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Posted 2nd Oct 2010 at 19:22
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rich306
Seasoned Pro  Location: Portsmouth Registered: 09 Aug 2009 Posts: 1,834 Status: Offline |
Post #5
I asked my Mechanic friend today regarding this. once all valves are back in and the lifters are also in.. The Camshafts can be placed on no problems, I had a look at the end of the cams and it shows a slot in which the cam pulleys lock into. as long as your doing this by hand to start with, you shouldn't have any drama's. Give me more detail if you do have any problems reassembling Also show pics detailing what you want to do. ________________________________________ Richies Project RallyeElectrical work carried out in Portsmouth jamiek_uk2000 wrote: - Top Tip!!! You'll need to throw money at the car. Not on parts. Just stand near your car and throw loose change at it, I find this increases performance for a short period of time |
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Posted 3rd Oct 2010 at 01:35
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mikebee
Regular Location: Northampton Registered: 17 Aug 2010 Posts: 122 Status: Offline |
Post #6
Thanks for the reply Rich. It's really been frustrating me today.Basically I have the head off on the bench. Just had two bent inlet valves and all exhaust guides replaced. Started reassembling it yesterday. I took the plungers out of the lifters and drained the old oil and popped them back together and into the head. Then I put the cams in as per here http://www.306gti6.com/forum/showthread.php?id=89686 which is as stated in the Peugeot engine manual (uploaded elsewhere on here). The problem is that none of the timing pins line up. See attached pic of the cams where they sit after I've bolted down the cam carrier. The arrows show where I need to rotate them to get the timing pins in. I just can't figure out how I a can rotate them on the bench as it is? Sounds like I am missing a vital piece of info or a tool that I need or something... mikebee has attached the following image: |
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Posted 3rd Oct 2010 at 01:56
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic  Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,838 Status: Offline |
Post #7
just use a spanner.________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 3rd Oct 2010 at 02:01
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mikebee
Regular Location: Northampton Registered: 17 Aug 2010 Posts: 122 Status: Offline |
Post #8
Have tried that and it is really tight. Feels like I'm over-torquing the bolt as if it'll shear. Is it meant to be really tight? Maybe I missed something on the litters. I tapped them to get the plunger out, emptied the old oil and just fitted them back together. Tried pre-filling with oil but I couldn't get them back together so left them empty. |
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Posted 3rd Oct 2010 at 02:09
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midlife
Seasoned Pro  Location: Colne, Lancashire Registered: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 7,544 Status: Offline |
Post #9
Just make sure you have the pin in the crank pulley, this ensures that all the pistons are half way down the bores so you can rotate the cams with no fear of hitting a piston.As said above just use a spanner. Edit, bloody he'll that dunt sound good, get it in bits again & double check everything. My cams spin quite easily! You have used plenty of assembly lube?? You might have locked inlets & exhausts & bent them   ________________________________________ Get used to seeing the yellow one !!! Team 330™ Team "no front end or engine" Team "LIMITED EDITION" I live for the 306 sticker  Team 0-60 in 6.44 & standing qtr in 14.808 @ 94.55mph all with std engine 203bhp Corolla T-Sport daily driver stealthier than Kwai Chang Caine |
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Posted 3rd Oct 2010 at 02:20
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,838 Status: Offline |
Post #10
as long as you don't do a full turn, as you'll twat an opposing valve.________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 3rd Oct 2010 at 02:18
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mikebee
Regular Location: Northampton Registered: 17 Aug 2010 Posts: 122 Status: Offline |
Post #11
It's still on the bench, not on the car. Others have said to lock the pins before pitting it back in the car, but it just seems wrong that it's so tight. Have double checked everything and not had any valve interference so should be ok there. Is it worth trying to fill the lifters first? Couldn't really see that it would make any difference. |
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Posted 3rd Oct 2010 at 02:39
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jeffers
Forum Admin Location: Leeds Registered: 14 Dec 2003 Posts: 3,702 Status: Offline |
Post #12
I asked Carl (Mechanical repairs) when i did mine, check with him but if i remember correctly he said fit the inlet cam with the woodruff key at 3 oclock, the exhaust with the woodruff key at 12 o clock. He then said fit the pulleys and rotate the cams slightly to put the pins in, i never did that last bit til the head was fitted to the engine purely because i was scared of catchuing a valve when i put it on. When i had fitted the head i then rotated the cams to the correct position (this is only a matter of a few degrees) using a Boa strap wrench, the ones that use a length of thick rubber. Fitted the cam locking pins, then fitted the timing belt as normal. Just make sure you check with Carl what i have said about the cam positions before doing it, i don't want to be responsible for someone doing it wrong! I hope that garbled reply of mine makes sense!  ________________________________________ Team Running Engine again!Team Negative Camber! My Budget track engine build thread! Now appearing at a Trackday near you!!  |
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Posted 3rd Oct 2010 at 02:43
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davedgti6
Seasoned Pro  Location: whiston, prescot Registered: 28 May 2006 Posts: 1,651 Status: Offline |
Post #13
Just turn the cams each a bit at a time (clockwise) till you can get the locking pins in, then fabricate a tool like the peugeot special tool (see the autodata Faq on here) lock the cams together and undo the centre bolts on the cams , then remove the locking tool and rotate the cam sprockets fully counter clockwise, some of the valves will then be protruding from the flat face of the head, to prevent these catching on the sides of the bores when refitting the head I used some stud iron down the block bolt holes to "align" the head and block so that the head slid on without any danger of catching a valve, use the locking tool again once the belt is correctly tensioned then torque up the two centre bolts (again see the Autodata cambelt faq on here) ________________________________________ Team Supercharged Gti-6™ |
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Posted 3rd Oct 2010 at 02:48
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davedgti6
Seasoned Pro Location: whiston, prescot Registered: 28 May 2006 Posts: 1,651 Status: Offline |
Post #14
If the cams wont move at all by turning the centre camshaft pulley clockwise then summit is deffo wrong but they should move really________________________________________ Team Supercharged Gti-6™ |
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Posted 3rd Oct 2010 at 02:52
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mikebee
Regular Location: Northampton Registered: 17 Aug 2010 Posts: 122 Status: Offline |
Post #15
Hmmm. This all makes sense. Just can't figure out why the cams are so stiff to rotate on the bench...Will pull it all off in the morning and reassemble using excess lube in case it's that. So empty litters won't stop the cams rotating? |
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Posted 3rd Oct 2010 at 02:59
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coskev
Seasoned Pro Location: Oswestry Registered: 01 Nov 2009 Posts: 3,132 Status: Offline |
Post #16
mikebee wrote: Hmmm. This all makes sense. Just can't figure out why the cams are so stiff to rotate on the bench... Will pull it all off in the morning and reassemble using excess lube in case it's that. So empty litters won't stop the cams rotating? No,you want them empty so once they get oil pressure into them they fill up to the correct amount Empty lifters should make it easier to turn cams TBH,cause you are not pushing the valves fully open with empty lifters. I would leave timing the cams up till after head is fitted,nowt to be gained by doing it before,and also the risk of catching the valves that are open ________________________________________ Red GTB1756 powered Fabia VRS daily driver,LBSC Gti6 eater........Mac1 ZR R1 kit car build in progress. |
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Posted 3rd Oct 2010 at 03:54
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,838 Status: Offline |
Post #17
double valve springs  I take it you've never tried to turn the cam in a gti6 before? ________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 3rd Oct 2010 at 04:14
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midlife
Seasoned Pro Location: Colne, Lancashire Registered: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 7,544 Status: Offline |
Post #18
Double valve springs should not make a huge difference!!As you have 4 pairs of lobes that are at different angles, you should be able to turn the pulley by hand ________________________________________ Get used to seeing the yellow one !!!Team 330™ Team "no front end or engine" Team "LIMITED EDITION" I live for the 306 sticker Team 0-60 in 6.44 & standing qtr in 14.808 @ 94.55mph all with std engine 203bhp Corolla T-Sport daily driver stealthier than Kwai Chang Caine |
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Posted 3rd Oct 2010 at 04:44
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,838 Status: Offline |
Post #19
tell that to the snapped timing belts ________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 3rd Oct 2010 at 15:18
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mikebee
Regular Location: Northampton Registered: 17 Aug 2010 Posts: 122 Status: Offline |
Post #20
welshpug! wrote: double valve springs I take it you've never tried to turn the cam in a gti6 before? Correct. Never had this trouble with other engines though. To be fair, none of those had double valve springs. |
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Posted 3rd Oct 2010 at 19:17
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,838 Status: Offline |
Post #21
I would double check that you have the cams placed in the right place (i.e inlet in inlet + exhaust in exhaust)not sure on these heads, but I know the TU5J4 you can bolt them in the wrong way but they don't turn. ________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 3rd Oct 2010 at 19:39
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joevts
Senior User  Location: barnsley Registered: 21 May 2008 Posts: 608 Status: Offline |
Post #22
yeah check for the vac pump drive slot on the end of the exhaust cam, i don't think there's a redundant slot on the inlet cam is there? apart from that they look the same to me, and that would tie in with the timing holes being 90 degrees apart.ok just checked and they do seem to be ever so slightly different on the timing front, but you can tell which is which by the slot on the end. and i doubt you'll shear an M12 bolt with a hand wrench, but as said previously a strap wrench on the sprocket is probably the best way to turn it. |
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Posted 4th Oct 2010 at 00:35
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mikebee
Regular Location: Northampton Registered: 17 Aug 2010 Posts: 122 Status: Offline |
Post #23
definitely don't have the cams the wrong way. the one with the slot for the vac pump is in the right place.will try a strap wrench as this seems like a good idea to me. i took it all apart again today to double check everything. i think it's because i wasn't using enough lube. will get hold of some proper assembly lube and try again - was just using new engine oil in there, so figure the friction might be an issue (although they all turned nicely in the cam carrier). i thought they were M10 bolts? but yeah it'd be pretty rough to shear one by hand with a spanner... |
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Posted 4th Oct 2010 at 00:40
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joevts
Senior User Location: barnsley Registered: 21 May 2008 Posts: 608 Status: Offline |
Post #24
well i tested some soft grade stainless bolts last week and iirc the M12s sheared at about 150Nm, so i imagine you'd really have to swing on the wrench to rip the heads off the HT ones on the camshaft. |
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Posted 4th Oct 2010 at 00:52
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mabgti
NV motors  Location: Bham tunnel @7400rpm Registered: 28 Aug 2003 Posts: 9,127 Status: Offline |
Post #25
always time the cams off the block on the rfs head.. the valves tend to pinch and bend causing the slight tap.. be careful when you use the locking pins, making sure they are a snug fit... dont be tempted to use allen keys strap wrench the exhaust cam first, then the inlet.. this should leave enough clearance for timing the inlet.. make sure pulley is flat on the woodruff ________________________________________ Team Supercharged Gti-6NV Motorsport Automotive Performance Tuning 0121 448 7515 ECU Remapping/ DPF removal VAG/BMW Diag and Option Coding Peugeot Planet ECU coding/transponder programming etc www.nvmotorsport.com Facebook Page Project S6 |
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Posted 4th Oct 2010 at 06:44
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