displaying posts 1 to 20 of 20

Author Subject: Dodgy hydraulic lifter
prism7guy

Seasoned Pro

Location: DoncastAAAAARGH

Registered: 13 Jan 2008

Posts: 4,640

Status: Offline

Post #1
Is it obvious to find which hydraulic lifter is dodgy?
Mine started tapping the other week but disappeared after a few minutes, it was back again last night when I started the car after a few weeks of being stood and it was tapping once again, after a few blips of the throttle it disappeared. The head is coming off tomorrow anyway as the head gasket has gone I just wondered if it would be obvious which one is playing up?
This may be a daft question but is it bad practice to put in a used one from a different engine? (Ive got 16 spare from an old engine that I stripped a while ago).

________________________________________

Goldie the track car.
Posted 26th May 2017 at 22:23
phillipm

Seasoned Pro

Location: Rotherham

Registered: 15 Oct 2006

Posts: 20,607

Status: Offline

Post #2
It's probably a bit of gelled up old oil there, pull them all out and pump the old out/split them, refill with fresh oil and they're usually fine, it's not a long job, tapping them on a block of wood normal pops the centre out.

________________________________________

- Bespoke rollcages/additions/adjustments. Half cages right up to complete custom spaceframes - MSA/FIA spec, CDS, ROPT, T45, etc - PM me
Email me!
Custom-made polybushes available - need an odd size or fitment? - anything from batch work to one-off pieces.
Posted 26th May 2017 at 22:50
prism7guy

Seasoned Pro

Location: DoncastAAAAARGH

Registered: 13 Jan 2008

Posts: 4,640

Status: Offline

Post #3
Cheers mate, I'll have a go at that tomorrow.

Next question, what is the process of changing valve guides? I'm assuming it's fairly easy so I might aswell do it myself whilst the head is off, I'll be fitting new stem seals too.
Do the valves need lapping in once they've been removed or isn't it necessary if they're going back against the same seat they've always lived in?

________________________________________

Goldie the track car.
Posted 26th May 2017 at 22:56
phillipm

Seasoned Pro

Location: Rotherham

Registered: 15 Oct 2006

Posts: 20,607

Status: Offline

Post #4
If you replace the guides you'll probably find the seats need recutting, it's very rare they reseat in exactly the same spot, but yes, pretty easy press out/in job, I always use a bit of silver/nickle anti-sieze on them when they go back in just to help with heat transfer away from the valve, but everyone has a different opinion on that one, most put them in dry Big grin
Sticking the guides in the freezer helps if going in dry. (!)
Not so much these days with better made parts, but on odd occasion you might need to run a reamer down if they close up a little too much, or a bit of silver steel with a slot cut in it in a pinch.

________________________________________

- Bespoke rollcages/additions/adjustments. Half cages right up to complete custom spaceframes - MSA/FIA spec, CDS, ROPT, T45, etc - PM me
Email me!
Custom-made polybushes available - need an odd size or fitment? - anything from batch work to one-off pieces.
Posted 26th May 2017 at 23:13
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,838

Status: Offline

Post #5
dressing the top of the tappet is a good idea, youll soon find any excessive wear if they dont clean up quickly.

as for the guides I'd let a pro do it, then cut the seats with a 3 anglr cutter like a serdi machine.

are the guides worn??

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 26th May 2017 at 23:21
prism7guy

Seasoned Pro

Location: DoncastAAAAARGH

Registered: 13 Jan 2008

Posts: 4,640

Status: Offline

Post #6
Cheers guys.

I'm taking the head to be skimmed on Tuesday so I'll just leave the valves in and ask them to check the valve guides and replace the stem seals. When I took my last head there for a skim I was informed the exhaust valve guides were all worn (I assume due to extra heat exposure?) so I had all 8 replaced.

Are the valves 3 angle as standard? If not, does it make much of a difference to have them cut that way?

________________________________________

Goldie the track car.
Posted 26th May 2017 at 23:49
phillipm

Seasoned Pro

Location: Rotherham

Registered: 15 Oct 2006

Posts: 20,607

Status: Offline

Post #7
Yes

________________________________________

- Bespoke rollcages/additions/adjustments. Half cages right up to complete custom spaceframes - MSA/FIA spec, CDS, ROPT, T45, etc - PM me
Email me!
Custom-made polybushes available - need an odd size or fitment? - anything from batch work to one-off pieces.
Posted 27th May 2017 at 00:15
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,838

Status: Offline

Post #8
but not very well, and you can clean the ports up just behind the valve seats very nicely with the cutter.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 27th May 2017 at 07:52
prism7guy

Seasoned Pro

Location: DoncastAAAAARGH

Registered: 13 Jan 2008

Posts: 4,640

Status: Offline

Post #9
Few more questions:

When the crank is pinned, should the pistons be exactly half way up the bore? i.e. all four pistons exactly the same distance down from the deck?

Is it worth smoothing off the ports so they are smooth before sending the head to be cleaned and skimmed, or is the rough finish better for atomising the fuel on the way in?

I'm sure i had more questions but i can't think of them right now, i'll be back on when they pop into my head Laugh

________________________________________

Goldie the track car.
Posted 27th May 2017 at 20:43
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,838

Status: Offline

Post #10
yes pistons are mid stroke when pinned.

ports have a decent finish as they are in the main, you don't want a polished surface, tidying any lumps can't hurt but they're usually very well finished.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 27th May 2017 at 21:10
prism7guy

Seasoned Pro

Location: DoncastAAAAARGH

Registered: 13 Jan 2008

Posts: 4,640

Status: Offline

Post #11
I had a quick look in the ports and didn't see any big lumps to worry about so I think I'll just leave them as-is.
I might have a go at clearing the coke out of the exhaust ports though, is there any chemicals that are effective at this or will most solvents be up to the job?

Where abouts is the bit where you're meant to see how much life the head has left in it after a skim? I had a quick look at the face of the head and it looks like some of the valves may sit proud of the face which I don't remember seeing on my previous head so I'm thinking this one may have been done before, is there a known measurement between the face and somewhere to check how much has been taken off in the past?

I'm pretty sure I got a head gasket kit from the engine builders last time which included a head gasket, exhaust gasket, inlet gasket, thermostat gasket and maybe some others, made by payen from memory. I might see whether they do that but with a thicker head gasket to help compensate for the head skim, do these repair gaskets come in mls or are they fibre?

Which head bolts are considered better, with a female torx head or male torx head?

I'm a little concerned about the timing of the engine, I pinned the cams but the crank didn't line up with the block. The pin in the crank pulley was slightly too far anticlockwise to go into the locking part on the block, but I removed the head without that pinned as it was very unlikely for the crank to rotate anywhere near enough for any piston-valve collisions. Once the head was off the Pistons were a few mm different to the deck.

One other question, I removed the cams from the head before I took the head off to eliminate the possibility of catching any valves once I had the head off, I left the pin in the pullies and undid the 18mm bolt that locks the pulley to the cam, once the bolt was out and I started pulling the pulley off the cam turned slightly due to the fact that some of the valves were part open, I'm guessing there isnt much chance of any valve-valve contact during that small movement? From memory it was cylinder 3 that had the inlet valves opened slightly so they must have closed during the spin.

________________________________________

Goldie the track car.
Posted 27th May 2017 at 22:11
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,838

Status: Offline

Post #12
137mm is a standard head, 136.8mm is minimum.

a small movement wont hurt the valves but you really shouldn't use the timing pin to hold them.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 27th May 2017 at 22:14
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,838

Status: Offline

Post #13
standard pulley? check that the keyway is 70 degrees from the pin hole.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 27th May 2017 at 22:16
prism7guy

Seasoned Pro

Location: DoncastAAAAARGH

Registered: 13 Jan 2008

Posts: 4,640

Status: Offline

Post #14
Cheers for that, I'll get the calipers on it tomorrow to check.

I made a pulley locking tool to hold the pulleys for cracking off the 18mm head bolts, then used the timing pins to hold the cams in their positions as I removed the cambelt. Once that was off I wanted to remove the cams before removing the head but with the plastic belt cover being bolted to the head and cam carriers I had to remove the pulleys in order to get the plastic housing off. It was only the inlet cam that moved as once the pulley was off it lost the ability to hold the cam in place. It didn't spin much I think it was just spinning to raise the inlet valves as the springs would have been trying to close them with the cam in its timed position. (I think ive explained that as well as I can in text form LOL)

It's a solid pulley that I made, I'm going to get the rich w one off my other car tomorrow to double check but I'm pretty sure I put the hole 70 degrees away.

Don't suppose you know if payen do a repair gasket kit which includes a thicker mls head gasket and all the other gaskets in the kit too or should I just order them all seperately?
I tried looking at their online catalogue but it's 1800+ pages and my phone didn't seem to like that Doh Laugh

________________________________________

Goldie the track car.
Posted 27th May 2017 at 22:41
adam b

Seasoned Pro

Location: The Nam

Registered: 24 Jan 2006

Posts: 12,828

Status: Offline

Post #15
Check your spark plugs first. One might be working loose

________________________________________

Nothing to see here
Posted 27th May 2017 at 22:46
prism7guy

Seasoned Pro

Location: DoncastAAAAARGH

Registered: 13 Jan 2008

Posts: 4,640

Status: Offline

Post #16
They were tight originally with the mis-fire, one was all gunked up when i removed it so i fitted a new set, the mis-fire disappeared then but before i fitted the plugs i cranked the engine a few times to circulate the oil and coolant was shooting out of cylinder 4. With the new plugs in the coolant system once again got too much pressure and spat a load of coolant into the expansion bottle, which continued to bubble with the engine sat idling. The fresh coolant turned from the nice blue to a manky brown colour on it's first journey so i assumed the head gasket had gone.
Now that the head is off it does look like coolant has been getting from the water jacket into cylinder 4, but no obvious damage to the head, gasket or block.

Whoever built the engine up in the past seemed to have done a bit of a half hearted job, one of the head bolts had started to round off where they hadn't put the torx bit all the way into the cap head of the bolt. Fortunately it didnt round off and i managed to get them all out fine. Similar situation with some of the cam carrier bolts so i'm going to have to source some new ones of them. Servicebox seems to be down currently though so i can't see how much my wallet will be raped on tuesday when i need to order more, similar with the cam carrier capscrews.

I also had a nightmare with the top offside bolt holding the stainless heat shield to the cam cover, the thread stripped meaning the bolt wouldnt come out, i probably could have got the exhaust manifold nuts off with it in place but i cracked out the dremel and butchered the heatshield off, once that was off i remembered that my 13mm flexi head ratchet spanner went walkies at a trackday last year, quick trip to halfords only to find they dont sell them individually meant i had to buy another set at £40 (thank god they were on offer, i now have a dedicated set of spares just for trackdays looking on the bright side LOL).

________________________________________

Goldie the track car.
Posted 27th May 2017 at 23:01
phillipm

Seasoned Pro

Location: Rotherham

Registered: 15 Oct 2006

Posts: 20,607

Status: Offline

Post #17
That's not a half hearted job, I took a K-series apart last year to find someone had dropped the head, cracked the corner and one of the cam bearings off, and slapped it back on with some epoxy in the crack.

Sounds like your guy was a pro!

________________________________________

- Bespoke rollcages/additions/adjustments. Half cages right up to complete custom spaceframes - MSA/FIA spec, CDS, ROPT, T45, etc - PM me
Email me!
Custom-made polybushes available - need an odd size or fitment? - anything from batch work to one-off pieces.
Posted 28th May 2017 at 11:05
prism7guy

Seasoned Pro

Location: DoncastAAAAARGH

Registered: 13 Jan 2008

Posts: 4,640

Status: Offline

Post #18
Well compared to your guy mine was a pro then! LOL

Just had a thought, I looked on servicebox under the hydraulic lifter and there was a long list of different thickness parts that can go inside, but I was under the impression that the lifters set themselves with oil pressure. Would having the valve seats re-cut not move the valve stem up slightly towards the cams and therefore upset the settings inside the lifters or are they like I thought and set themselves with engine oil?

________________________________________

Goldie the track car.
Posted 29th May 2017 at 14:31
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,838

Status: Offline

Post #19
its a hydraulic self adjusting tappet, only one component.

you may well be able to revive them by stripping and cleaning the oiston inside.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 29th May 2017 at 20:37
prism7guy

Seasoned Pro

Location: DoncastAAAAARGH

Registered: 13 Jan 2008

Posts: 4,640

Status: Offline

Post #20
I thought that was the case, just got confused looking at the inserts shown on servicebox.
Ive cleaned the cam carriers and covers today in a make shift parts cleaner, tomorrow I'll get the lifters out and clean them one by one. Ive not had one apart yet, is it just a case of tapping them on a block of wood to get the piston out? To rebuild do I just fill them with oil before pushing the piston back in?

I measured the head today, bang on 137mm so it doesn't appear to have been skimmed before Smile

________________________________________

Goldie the track car.
Posted 29th May 2017 at 21:38

All times are GMT. The time is now 14:57

The Peugeot GTi-6 & Rallye Owners Club - ©2024 all rights reserved.

Please Note: The views and opinions found herein are those of individuals, and not of The Peugeot 306 GTi-6 & Rallye Owners Club or any individuals involved.
No responsibility is taken or assumed for any comments or statements made on, or in relation to, this website. Please see our updated privacy policy.