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Author Subject: Ecosse opcon Vs Lynx Rotrex supercharger
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

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Post #26
Awesome levels of fun and a great noise, one specific engine I know of was DrSarty's, it was an MI16 head with a 92mm XUD11 crank and an 87mm bore, so 2187cc or thereabouts.

Inlet cam only, satchell inlet, 205 conversion 4 branch, made 240 bhp and 196 lbft.

DJmini had a sandy brown build which was rather more involved head work side running solids and more revs, which made a conservative 282 bhp and similar torque to DrSarty.

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Posted 11th May 2014 at 23:22
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armzsc6

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Post #27
Niall wrote:
rallyeash wrote:
Yeah the pull on my impreza was really strong as it would be with a 2.5 cosworth built version 9 engine and 400lbft.

I've seen supercharged pugs match the HP and torque. Think AllenAllan runs an eaton which is less power than a Rotrex but runs more torque compared to a LBSC


Well how much is your average LBSC Rotrex? 250BHP? Allens Eaton is running a shade over 250 and iirc about 200lb/ft. Mine is running 190hp and 180lb/ft but thats because my fuel pump was f**ked and had a chronic boost leak. I can safely say that although its only a bit more power (at the moment anyway) than standard, it really has change the way it drives. Peak torque is now at about 3.5k i believe and it feels much more useable than any LBSC Rotrex I've been in.

I know the eatons aren't as efficient as a rotrex but personally, i wouldn't change. Also, the noise is quite addictive Razz


That's pretty well the same figure as my rotrex on a low boost 248bhp 200ft/lbs and that was after it sitting around for 20mins with major heat soak on a 30 degree summer day when the car feels utterly gutless.

Also on a very accurate regularly calibrated rolling road.
I'll have to take you for a thrash up the hill Niall at pugfest Thumbs up

Still fancy meeting up with us Kent's on the drive down?

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Posted 11th May 2014 at 23:40
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RetroPug

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Post #28
Thank you.
Would love an NA engined car in a reasonably high state of tune.

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Posted 12th May 2014 at 00:17
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aaron6

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Post #29
Me too. Although after my impreza I really do miss the huge amount of torque it had to offer. Plus, deliberately playing with turbo lag was fun. So for me, tuned n/a or turbo.
To be honest though, a rotrex or eaton wouldnt go amiss either. LOL

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Posted 12th May 2014 at 06:15
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stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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Post #30
retropug wrote:
Want a TB'd something in my life at some point.


Buy a sportsbike, they come as standard with throttle bodies. Plus the noise is awesome as your ears are only 1 foot away from them when you open them up. Cool

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Posted 12th May 2014 at 07:27
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Niall

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Post #31
armzs16 wrote:
Niall wrote:
rallyeash wrote:
Yeah the pull on my impreza was really strong as it would be with a 2.5 cosworth built version 9 engine and 400lbft.

I've seen supercharged pugs match the HP and torque. Think AllenAllan runs an eaton which is less power than a Rotrex but runs more torque compared to a LBSC


Well how much is your average LBSC Rotrex? 250BHP? Allens Eaton is running a shade over 250 and iirc about 200lb/ft. Mine is running 190hp and 180lb/ft but thats because my fuel pump was f**ked and had a chronic boost leak. I can safely say that although its only a bit more power (at the moment anyway) than standard, it really has change the way it drives. Peak torque is now at about 3.5k i believe and it feels much more useable than any LBSC Rotrex I've been in.

I know the eatons aren't as efficient as a rotrex but personally, i wouldn't change. Also, the noise is quite addictive Razz


That's pretty well the same figure as my rotrex on a low boost 248bhp 200ft/lbs and that was after it sitting around for 20mins with major heat soak on a 30 degree summer day when the car feels utterly gutless.

Also on a very accurate regularly calibrated rolling road.
I'll have to take you for a thrash up the hill Niall at pugfest Thumbs up

Still fancy meeting up with us Kent's on the drive down?


Yes mate there is a load of us on OC meeting up for the drive there so we can meet you on route somewhere.
Posted 12th May 2014 at 07:31
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rallyestyle

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Post #32
Niall wrote:

Well how much is your average LBSC Rotrex? 250BHP?


Mine is a little better than average perhaps but uses the generic map and gets 267 bhp and 209 lbft, seems to be on par with the eaton setup. Later on the same day it prooduced 260 bhp and 226 lbft, a bit less power but more torque that time.

As Rich mentioned though the generic map has been produced to make the car drivable so its mostly an increase in high end torque reaching its max at over 5k rpm. Im sure there is an element of caution in the standard maps, Rich sells them as a package so needs to make sure it is reliable otherwise his customer feedback is going to be pretty bleak. In the future i hope to get a stand alone management system for mine and play around with the options, will be interesting to see what can be achived in terms of low down torque although it may loose me some reiability along the way.

One thing that is not in doubt is that the noise from a roots type charger is second to none, worth the setup just for that Yes Devil

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Posted 12th May 2014 at 08:14
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RetroPug

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Post #33
stan_306gti6 wrote:
retropug wrote:
Want a TB'd something in my life at some point.


Buy a sportsbike, they come as standard with throttle bodies. Plus the noise is awesome as your ears are only 1 foot away from them when you open them up. Cool


I've never been into bikes as much as cars, although I'm sure they're a lot of fun.
Pretty much every male member of my family has been hurt on a motorcycle through no fault of their own at some point as well. LOL

I'd love to try riding a motorbike someday but cars have always done it for me...

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Posted 12th May 2014 at 08:22
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aaron6

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Post #34
Balls to bikes. My grandad used to race left handed sidecar on grasstrack to a high standard and broke himself loads of times and my other grandad died on one due to colliding with a car. Dangerous poxy things.

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Posted 12th May 2014 at 08:29
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Niall

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Post #35
rallyestyle wrote:
Niall wrote:

Well how much is your average LBSC Rotrex? 250BHP?


Mine is a little better than average perhaps but uses the generic map and gets 267 bhp and 209 lbft, seems to be on par with the eaton setup. Later on the same day it prooduced 260 bhp and 226 lbft, a bit less power but more torque that time.

As Rich mentioned though the generic map has been produced to make the car drivable so its mostly an increase in high end torque reaching its max at over 5k rpm. Im sure there is an element of caution in the standard maps, Rich sells them as a package so needs to make sure it is reliable otherwise his customer feedback is going to be pretty bleak. In the future i hope to get a stand alone management system for mine and play around with the options, will be interesting to see what can be achived in terms of low down torque although it may loose me some reiability along the way.

One thing that is not in doubt is that the noise from a roots type charger is second to none, worth the setup just for that Yes Devil


Yeah I can completely see that the map rich uses needs to be safe as every engine is different. I do definitely think that mapping is the way forwards though and a rotrex low boost kit would probably make 270-280hp with a proper map but of course that's £1000+ for a ecu and mapping so is it really worth it!
A rotrex is definitely more efficient than a eaton but personally, I'd still have the eaton. More widely used so if it goes wrong (which they rarely do unless it's user influenced), they are cheaper and easier to source, don't have to do oil changes on them with from looking at the price, must contain unicorn s**t and the noise is great lol
Posted 12th May 2014 at 11:23
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dangti6

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Post #36
Plus the Eaton makes your car sound like a bus which is cool.

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    • Posted 12th May 2014 at 11:28
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    armzsc6

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    Post #37
    I have to agree on the noise front. Most people claim a rotrex is silent and boring but mine gives a pretty loud turbo spool noise which can be heard pretty well all the time and some induction noise from the front.

    However the whine of a screw type charger never gets old and turns wads all day long. Driven my mates cooper S Works enough times to find that out lol

    Not heard good things about the ecosse opcon setup though. Not much power and ugly as sin. Doesn't even use an intercooler.

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    Posted 12th May 2014 at 17:09
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    pugheaven

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    Post #38
    Iv never been in a low boost but both my high boosts sounded cool and the shb in my opinion sounds better than a tb'd engine
    Posted 12th May 2014 at 17:17
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    armzsc6

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    Post #39
    Rich W's old super high boost sounded like thunder just before you pulled up when I came to yours lol

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    Seat Leon FR TDI 190BHP 300lbft daily gti-6 killer :p
    12x 306's owned so far

    Cambelts, clutches, service work carried out on All makes and models, Peugeot Citroen / mitsubishi specialist.
    Pug planet / Citroen Lexia diagnostics / code reads available.
    Posted 12th May 2014 at 19:05
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    marco gti6

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    Post #40
    rallyestyle wrote:
    Niall wrote:

    Well how much is your average LBSC Rotrex? 250BHP?


    Mine is a little better than average perhaps but uses the generic map and gets 267 bhp and 209 lbft, seems to be on par with the eaton setup. Later on the same day it prooduced 260 bhp and 226 lbft, a bit less power but more torque that time.

    As Rich mentioned though the generic map has been produced to make the car drivable so its mostly an increase in high end torque reaching its max at over 5k rpm. Im sure there is an element of caution in the standard maps, Rich sells them as a package so needs to make sure it is reliable otherwise his customer feedback is going to be pretty bleak. In the future i hope to get a stand alone management system for mine and play around with the options, will be interesting to see what can be achived in terms of low down torque although it may loose me some reiability along the way.

    One thing that is not in doubt is that the noise from a roots type charger is second to none, worth the setup just for that Yes Devil


    Do you know what would needed to be adapted for the LB setup to be run on a stand alone management system? Rich uses DTA on the SillyHighBoost but the setup is different to the regular low and high boost systems.
    Posted 12th May 2014 at 21:10
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    Niall

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    Post #41
    marco gti6 wrote:
    rallyestyle wrote:
    Niall wrote:

    Well how much is your average LBSC Rotrex? 250BHP?


    Mine is a little better than average perhaps but uses the generic map and gets 267 bhp and 209 lbft, seems to be on par with the eaton setup. Later on the same day it prooduced 260 bhp and 226 lbft, a bit less power but more torque that time.

    As Rich mentioned though the generic map has been produced to make the car drivable so its mostly an increase in high end torque reaching its max at over 5k rpm. Im sure there is an element of caution in the standard maps, Rich sells them as a package so needs to make sure it is reliable otherwise his customer feedback is going to be pretty bleak. In the future i hope to get a stand alone management system for mine and play around with the options, will be interesting to see what can be achived in terms of low down torque although it may loose me some reiability along the way.

    One thing that is not in doubt is that the noise from a roots type charger is second to none, worth the setup just for that Yes Devil


    Do you know what would needed to be adapted for the LB setup to be run on a stand alone management system? Rich uses DTA on the SillyHighBoost but the setup is different to the regular low and high boost systems.


    ECU, engine loom, recirc valve and move the throttle body to the inlet manifold.
    Posted 12th May 2014 at 21:21
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    doof

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    Post #42
    I've thought about this before but can't think why right now...Why can you not remove the restrictor on the LB setup and simply control the boost with a wastegate and boost controller and have the throttle plate on the inlet? Obviously you'd need it remapped but Wayne could do that on the standard ECU.

    I'm sure i'm missing something, sensors or something but my brain's dead Smile
    Posted 12th May 2014 at 21:59
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    rallyestyle

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    Post #43
    doof wrote:
    I've thought about this before but can't think why right now...Why can you not remove the restrictor on the LB setup and simply control the boost with a wastegate and boost controller and have the throttle plate on the inlet? Obviously you'd need it remapped but Wayne could do that on the standard ECU.

    I'm sure i'm missing something, sensors or something but my brain's dead Smile


    It's something like that yes Yes Not sure if there are any HB's running standalone right now Unsure Not for the time being anyway Whistle

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    Posted 13th May 2014 at 10:16
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    pugheaven

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    Post #44
    armzs16 wrote:
    Rich W's old super high boost sounded like thunder just before you pulled up when I came to yours lol



    when giving it the beans you can hear the charger spool up and when the wastegate chirps it sounds awesome, if you take it to the limit in 1st,2nd and 3rd it sounds like the world is ending an a almighty bang when you let off to change gear.....Big grin best sound ever
    Posted 13th May 2014 at 18:53
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    Day666

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    Post #45
    rallyeash wrote:
    If you do book the 11.45 to 1.45 open pit as I'll be out with my 205.


    Same time as me ....see ya there Ash Thumbs up
    Posted 13th May 2014 at 22:45
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    stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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    Post #46
    pugheaven wrote:
    armzs16 wrote:
    Rich W's old super high boost sounded like thunder just before you pulled up when I came to yours lol



    when giving it the beans you can hear the charger spool up and when the wastegate chirps it sounds awesome, if you take it to the limit in 1st,2nd and 3rd it sounds like the world is ending an a almighty bang when you let off to change gear.....Big grin best sound ever


    Couldn't agree more. Yes

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    Posted 13th May 2014 at 23:47
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    allanallen

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    Post #47
    It's all well and good quoting peak torque figures but that isn't the whole story. There's pros and cons to both centrifugal and roots type blowers (although I believe the opcon is a screw?), however in low boost form the centrifugal blower will not produce the same torque spread a roots blower can make choose what you do at the mapping.the boost rises differently between the two chargers, I'm sure you could improve the centrifugal low end torque by doing something clever with a wastegate and boost controller as mentioned above but that may well upset the chargers reliability?
    The centrifugal blower is essentially a crank driven turbo and the roots is a positive displacement pump, they're not really comparable IMO, horses for courses I guess, for a road car I prefer the eaton Smile

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    Posted 14th May 2014 at 07:56
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    welshpug!

    Capt Pedantic

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    Post #48
    That supercharger "spooling" comment made me laugh, its a belt driven thing ffs, it doesnt "spool up".

    Damned thing is spinning all the time Laugh my ass off


    Sounds like turbo wannabes Razz

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    Posted 14th May 2014 at 08:33
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    welshpug!

    Capt Pedantic

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    Post #49
    Epic torque plateau Allan Thumbs up

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    Posted 14th May 2014 at 08:34
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    pugheaven

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    Post #50
    welshpug! wrote:
    That supercharger "spooling" comment made me laugh, its a belt driven thing ffs, it doesnt "spool up".

    Damned thing is spinning all the time Laugh my ass off


    Sounds like turbo wannabes Razz



    have you been in s shb?

    im aware how a supercharger works thanks Thumbs up

    it does sound like a turbo "spooling" as assentilly is the same thing, the more revs the faster the charger spins, the same sound of a turbo spooling up is the same sound the charger makes hence why people normally ask what turbo I have fitted

    when the engine is at idle you cant hear the charger even though it is always spinning......
    Posted 14th May 2014 at 10:13
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