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Author Subject: 4x4 conversion
phillipm

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Post #26
superchargedblack1997gti6 wrote:
I'm thinking 12-15k for a 4x4 conversion would you say that was a good guesstimate?


If I was spending that I'd be crying if I couldn't work a sequential into that budget.

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Posted 23rd Dec 2013 at 23:02
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pete_rallye

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Post #27
6waysforward wrote:
I swear when i went into pug performance a few years ago, colin said they were working on a 4x4 twin turbo.

That was when they were building mark ballmans white 6 that carl ended up buying.

I could be wrong but im pretty sure that what he said.


I saw that too, although how many 'projects' actually get finished there is anyones guess...

As for a 4x4 conversion, I'd look for sierra cosworth running gear, thats what the 306 maxi 4x4 ran, the 306 and sierra wheelbases are almost identical despite the sierra looking much bigger. However the 'flair' of the 306 you talk about will almost certainly be lost in a 4x4 conversion, add on several hundred kilos and unknown handling issues and I can see a lot of work getting it to feel good.

I nearly bought the 306 maxi 4x4 cossie thing a few years back but in all honesty it was a horrible numb thing to drive, my standard rallye would have ripped it to pieces on any road with a bend in it, and really wouldn't have been far behind on the straights either.

Its a nice idea, but in reality I think whilst you may get it up and running for £15k, to actually make it quick would take a lot more.

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Posted 24th Dec 2013 at 00:31
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JWP EFi

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Post #28
stan_306gti6 wrote:
The most common way is to use the parts from the 405 Mi16 4x4.

Ecosse do a 'drive in/drive out' service for around £8000 last time I looked. Yes


if you were to use peugeot X4 running gear then i would bin the idea of using Mi16 transfer box, i actually had one of these back in the day, incredibly weak i even managed to break my low miles replacement transfer. The splines are just are just too fine to handle any sort of torque.
What you could do is find yourself the transfer box and rear diff from the 405 T16, these had much better transfer internals. This would be my ideal choice as it will physically bolt straight up to the J4RS engine, iirc the Mi16X4/T16 front shafts are the same length as 306 ones, 'all' that would need doing after this is fabricating mounts for the rear diff and making a centre bearing support for the prop shaft. The other bonus of using the 405 back end is you will have height adjustablr rear ride height-it uses same setup as citroen BX/Xantia Activa.
Availability of these parts - i would say will be just as hard as finding a good Mi16X4 setup, there are a few tuners who have butchered these cars for their engines to sell on as conversions. I know peugeot ecosse have a plentiful supply of all the bits you need. On your budget you will easily be able to complete it
Posted 25th Dec 2013 at 11:29
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superchargedblack1997gti6

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Post #29
As Pete said though completion is bit a problem but performance and reliability is more important to me than getting it done. Cheers

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Posted 25th Dec 2013 at 17:46
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pugheaven

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Post #30
All I can say is... Dooo it!
Posted 26th Dec 2013 at 11:30
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rallyeash

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Post #31
T99PUG wrote:
stan_306gti6 wrote:
The most common way is to use the parts from the 405 Mi16 4x4.

Ecosse do a 'drive in/drive out' service for around £8000 last time I looked. Yes


if you were to use peugeot X4 running gear then i would bin the idea of using Mi16 transfer box, i actually had one of these back in the day, incredibly weak i even managed to break my low miles replacement transfer. The splines are just are just too fine to handle any sort of torque.
What you could do is find yourself the transfer box and rear diff from the 405 T16, these had much better transfer internals. This would be my ideal choice as it will physically bolt straight up to the J4RS engine, iirc the Mi16X4/T16 front shafts are the same length as 306 ones, 'all' that would need doing after this is fabricating mounts for the rear diff and making a centre bearing support for the prop shaft. The other bonus of using the 405 back end is you will have height adjustablr rear ride height-it uses same setup as citroen BX/Xantia Activa.
Availability of these parts - i would say will be just as hard as finding a good Mi16X4 setup, there are a few tuners who have butchered these cars for their engines to sell on as conversions. I know peugeot ecosse have a plentiful supply of all the bits you need. On your budget you will easily be able to complete it


Stick this 4wd setup on a circuit with your engine and stick a 2wd setup with your engine on the same track but have spent the money on making the suspension work proper and I know what will be quicker.
I doubt you'll have traction issues with a decent setup, diff and sticky tyres.

At pugfest the high boost 306's looked to have more traction than my 205 off the line...

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Posted 26th Dec 2013 at 12:19
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superchargedblack1997gti6

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Post #32
I have now been in contact with someone who has another shell already 4x4 wich I'm tempted to build alongside the 2wd version. and in time maybe swap them over like Ash says the same 2wd car well setup will be just as quick as a reasonably setup 4x4 setup. I'm still very much considering it though.

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Posted 26th Dec 2013 at 12:38
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allanallen

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Post #33
What 4x4 set up is in the new shell?

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Posted 26th Dec 2013 at 14:48
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superchargedblack1997gti6

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Post #34
t16 I believe this is good for 360lbft by my research which is a little higher than my c38 build will be able to produce.

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Posted 26th Dec 2013 at 16:08
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pugheaven

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Post #35
Is that brens old black 4x4? The t16 gear ratio won't suit the charged lump iirc
Posted 26th Dec 2013 at 16:52
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scotzman

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Post #36
rallyeash wrote:


At pugfest the high boost 306's looked to have more traction than my 205 off the line...


That's only because they nearly stall and miss gears LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaLNCWDsEK4&feature=youtu.be

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Posted 26th Dec 2013 at 18:27
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clen666

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Post #37
LOL

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Posted 26th Dec 2013 at 20:47
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superchargedblack1997gti6

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Post #38
I don't have any problems off the line I can easily launch the car fast much faster than that video! it's under power through corners, yes it's controllable but more traction would be good and to be fair if you look at my other threads I'm looking at wider tyres and wider track As Ash advices looking at Colin Satchells 205 that launches as good as four wheel drive! But it had the advantage of being 750 kg and having a very well setup custom subframe wishbones and all assosciated components minimum I could get down to would be 900kg and the sub frames and components aren't available for the 306. 4x4 is an idea to take advantage of the power without the need for extensive rengineering of the fwd chassis. Ollie I've been thinking of ratios and have an idea.

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Posted 26th Dec 2013 at 20:52
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pete_rallye

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Post #39
There have been very few 4x4 cars that have been faster in the dry than my 306 because they are 4x4 (most also have several hundred bhp more). In the wet and on loose gravel then 4wd is miles faster but in the dry the additional running gear is just extra weight imo.

Personally, I'd look at a mid engined rwd conversion, similar weight, no torque steer, possibly better balance, better grip out of corners.. Its gonna be a handful in the wet and getting it to drive nicely will be equally as hard as a 4x4 conversion, but if you can get it to work, that would be the fastest setup.

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Posted 26th Dec 2013 at 21:47
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stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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Post #40
scotzman wrote:
rallyeash wrote:


At pugfest the high boost 306's looked to have more traction than my 205 off the line...


That's only because they nearly stall and miss gears LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaLNCWDsEK4&feature=youtu.be


Cheeky bugger!

I like launching at that pace...LOL

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Posted 26th Dec 2013 at 22:45
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clen666

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Post #41
Plus the extra transmission losses associated with 4x4.

It's something I considered for a while but gave up on it as it seemed more hassle than it was worth, but if you come up with a worthwhile solution then I'd be very interested to see it.

I've just bought a welder with the intention of doing some fabrication work eventually

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Posted 27th Dec 2013 at 13:10
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