Turning cams - Engines Forum - Peugeot 306 GTi-6 & Rallye Owners Club

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Subject: Turning cams

blandy

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Post #1

How tight shoul the cams be in the head? I've got my head back from skimming and testing, it was done after habing the gasket do and also the machine shop replaced 2 slightly bent valves, all was well untill they refitted the cams and they are not happy as the cams are really tight. I know you can't rotate fully etc but should you be able to turn them at all as they feel very tight and without using alot of force they dnt feel like they will move I.e how tight do the springs make them

I have the head with me now as was being done as a favour so not costing me anything but would like to get to the bottom of it as intend to build up a spare engine

Posted 4th Sep 2013 at 14:09

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welshpug!

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Post #2

They have double valve springs, so will be tight, you certainly dont want to move them any more than a few degrees till the pins slot in.

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Posted 4th Sep 2013 at 17:03

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blandy

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Post #3

Yeah dnt want to move them far but they feel solid in there even the company has said there to tight and were not happy with how tight they were. I.e if I were to use a toque wrench to move them any idea how much force it should need to move them? I can't see there being much wrong as it came off a running car etc so just trying to differentiate between tight correct and to tight lol

Posted 4th Sep 2013 at 18:55

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ryangti6

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Post #4

It's not an accurate figure but to give you an idea they take roughly the same force to turn as whatever the cam pulley bolts are set to.

If they won't turn with your torque wrench set at the bolt torque something isn't right.

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Posted 4th Sep 2013 at 19:30

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armzsc6

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Post #5

Literally don't turn them much at all as you will bend them and have to start again!

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Posted 4th Sep 2013 at 20:02

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blandy

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Post #6

Yeah not turning much just want to move them to line up timing marks but as said they feel tight and head shop also said they are tight so trying to define if they are or not lol.

Does anyone know the torque for the cam bolt?

Posted 4th Sep 2013 at 20:29

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phillipm

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Post #7

Has the head been skimmed square?

If they haven't clamped it down properly they might have bowed it and the cam carriers...

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Posted 4th Sep 2013 at 20:44

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superchargedblack1997gti6

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Post #8

Blandy have they definitley used the same cam carrier holders in the right positions as they wear individually to the cams? might be this causing them to bind up slightly?

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Posted 4th Sep 2013 at 20:48

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blandy

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Post #9

Dunno tbh Its a company that does alot of motorsport stuff so guessing it is right but wanting to check it all more for my own benefit/ learning than anything else, so will try swapping them if I get no joy but noticed they marked the pulleys up etc so would imagine they are correct.

it was done through a friend and is completely free so not lost anything so not to worried, and have also offered to give another head a going over if I get one, which I do have another tapper head sat here that ill probably give them to do.

Posted 4th Sep 2013 at 20:53

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superchargedblack1997gti6

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Post #10

Just it might be that I know that if you swap them about it can mess everything up! you should be able to see if you take them off as the wear on the cams should be the same as the carrier wear?

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Posted 4th Sep 2013 at 20:58

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ryangti6

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Post #11

The torque setting is 40 nm for the pulley bolt so should be a bit less than that to rotate the cam.

I'm sure the front and rear cam carriers are different so unless they happen to have another rs head there that shouldn't be your problem.

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Posted 5th Sep 2013 at 00:31

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armzsc6

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Post #12

Personally I'd be taking one of the cams back out so you can see for yourself what they are like to turn. Can turn one of them as much as you like if the other one ain't in Thumbs up

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Posted 5th Sep 2013 at 07:45

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blandy

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Post #13

Cool will give that a go then as better to be safe as know I've got a nice head with good valves so dnt wanna end up back at square 1

Posted 5th Sep 2013 at 10:02

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ryangti6

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Post #14

If you watch what you are doing you would have to be a right idiot to tangle valves when the head is off the car. If they are both currently un pinned then you will be able to rotate one of them fully anyway. It's when they are pinned you can't move either very far at all.

I'm pretty sure It's the exhaust one but It's pretty obvious when you look at the valves which one can be moved.

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Posted 5th Sep 2013 at 10:18

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daveyboy

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Post #15

ryangti6 wrote:

WRONG!!!

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Posted 5th Sep 2013 at 11:52

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ryangti6

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Post #16

daveyboy wrote:

ryangti6 wrote:

WRONG!!!

Good reply... care to elaborate seeing as I have done what I've said above and watched with my own eyes that nothing touches...

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Posted 5th Sep 2013 at 12:10

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mechanical_repairs

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Post #17

daveyboy wrote:

ryangti6 wrote:

WRONG!!!

Exaclty this, don't not turn a cam with them both fitted to the head,always a smart arse who doesn't know what they are talking about, how do you think the valves get tweaked.

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Posted 5th Sep 2013 at 12:53

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ryangti6

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Post #18

By people turning one when the other is pinned probably, I don't really get how people mess it up, It's not rocket science.

I'm not trying to be a smart arse just stating what I have done myself and It's been fine for me. If I hadn't done it myself then I would think your right tbh because of how well you know these engines, same with Dave, having read his project I know he knows what he's on about.

It doesn't really matter anyway in this case so we can agree to disagree as the guy doesn't need to move it far at all to see if they are too tight.

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Posted 5th Sep 2013 at 13:38

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armzsc6

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Post #19

If they are pinned or not then all the time a cam is in the head then some of the valves are either slightly or fully open. There is NO POINT in a 4 stroke cycle on any engine where all the valves are closed at some point.

If there are 2 camshafts in the head you WILL mash them together on a pentroof type head with angled valves. You turn them all you like in 16v Diesel engines as the valves point straight down.

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Posted 5th Sep 2013 at 13:54

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allanallen

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Post #20

If it's an unknown head check the cam carriers match the head, they should be dated and the castings should be similarly coloured with age, s**t etc. The head and carriers are 'line bored' so aren't interchangeable with other heads/carriers. If check this even if the heads come off a 'specialist', in my experience they're the worse folk for pulling these kinds of tricks.

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Posted 5th Sep 2013 at 14:03

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blandy

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Post #21

It was my head that I took off my running car so can't understand where this tightness has come from as yeah the gasket had gone and valves were tapping a little but it ran lol

Posted 5th Sep 2013 at 15:11

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allanallen

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Post #22

I'd be questioning the place that's done it then. Personally I'd whip all the valves back out and dummy fit the cams to see how they feel.

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Posted 5th Sep 2013 at 17:51

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blandy

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Post #23

Yeah something defiantly isn't right I popped to my unit tonight as I have a head off my original 180k engine that's a tapper and can move the cams with a small amount of force I.e using a 3/8 ratchet so definitely something a miss somewhere will pull the cams out and have a look to see if anything obvious is wrong

Posted 5th Sep 2013 at 20:01

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superchargedblack1997gti6

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Post #24

I'm predicting that the cam carriers are in the wrong place? hopefull not a biggy for you to get sorted mate!

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Posted 5th Sep 2013 at 20:31

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blandy

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Post #25

Right had a look today and looking at it can't get the carriers round wrong way as one has the hole in for the vac pump. Refitted the covers and attempted a little move and exhaust side is ok but inlet is solid Sad

Posted 7th Sep 2013 at 21:48

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