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Author Subject: Electrical Gremilns
bezza90

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Location: Llantwit Fardre, in Wales like!

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Post #1
Can anyone advise on things to try, I'm pulling my hair out.

Initially after the engine change I had this problem, but using electrical contact cleaner it went away. Symptoms initially were the ECU light flashing and the Bitron for the fuel pump buzzing/beeping about every second. Whilst it did this the fuel pump did not prime. Upon spraying liberally about the contact for the ECU the car decided to start working and worked (almost faultlessly) for a couple of weeks. Now this problem seemed to appear again, but it only seems to be when it's being revved (ie it will idle happily and generally run ok(ish) up to 3K or so.

What happens is the speedo and rev counter go up and down (during this time no power), the ECU light comes on and it's like the car is possesed. Strangely I find lifting off and back on the throttle sometimes restores it, sometime does not. Today it's been getting worse, so I decided to give the ECU and connection a bit of a spray with cleaner. Since then it's not got any better, at least not like when the RAC man did it and it sprung into life for the 2 weeks until now.

I've replaced the Bitron, same result.
Changed the ECU, same buzzing sound from Bitron.
Now I don't know if changing the loom is possible, but I have my old one available.

It would seem to be some sort of electrical issue, but I'm out of idea's and would welcome any brainstorming you guys could provide to give me ideas on what to try next.

My next thoughts were try and get some sort of file to properly clean the contacts of the ECU and Loom connection, plus the bitron + connections.

Has anyone seen this type of problem and managed to resolve it?

I have uploaded a video showing the kind of thing I mean with the dials. I was gradually bringing the throttle up to about 4K, then it was on the floor whilst it sounds like it's hitting the limiter at about 5K?!?

The dials go up as well as down, so I can be driving along at say 50 and the speedo will go up to 80, then down to 30, then back up etc, this is mirrored by the rev counter.

Please can you suggest things I can try, idea's, solutions anything....It's driving me mad and I want to kill the car, which is not good seeing as I have only recently replaced suspension, linkages, balljoints, exhaust system (inc CAT), interior, engine and gearbox....Oh and brake discs and pads and calipers!!

Thanks

Video of dial gremlins

________________________________________

'00 Astor Grey GTi-6
Team: 'EVO Triangle'
This is a quantum car. I don't know where I am, but I'm going really fast.
PS3 ID: Skaankypuppy
Normally play GT6
Posted 25th Jul 2013 at 18:44
bezza90

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Post #2
Sorry for the long winded post, I wanted to get as much info on as possible...... Smile

________________________________________

'00 Astor Grey GTi-6
Team: 'EVO Triangle'
This is a quantum car. I don't know where I am, but I'm going really fast.
PS3 ID: Skaankypuppy
Normally play GT6
Posted 25th Jul 2013 at 18:46
webster

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Location: Colchester

Registered: 20 May 2007

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Post #3
bad earth?

________________________________________

cress87 wrote:
I'm stopped for speeding on a daily basis but now the police are aware that I live for the 306 they dare not interfere, just sit in their cars quaking as I drive past.
Posted 25th Jul 2013 at 18:53
bezza90

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Post #4
webster wrote:
bad earth?


I guess I need to connect to each earth end and to the battery -ve and see if the problem goes away right?

It does seem like it could be related, as this only tends to happen with the engine revs up somewhat. Recently (yesterday) I noticed it as I accelerated onto the motorway, got up to 5K or so, everything fine, then the dials just dropped to 0, then back up, each time I had no power. If I cruised keeping the revs lower it seems ok.

When I sprayed the EUC and bitron with electrical cleaner, the problem seems to have almost got worse. Now it's back to sometimes not priming the fuel pump and buzzing/beeping the bitron, which was solved after the RAC guy did this, it would seem not for me though Sad

________________________________________

'00 Astor Grey GTi-6
Team: 'EVO Triangle'
This is a quantum car. I don't know where I am, but I'm going really fast.
PS3 ID: Skaankypuppy
Normally play GT6
Posted 25th Jul 2013 at 19:17
bezza90

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Post #5
what are the bit's I'd need to connect to in order to try and rule out or confirm a bad earth? Obviously one end goes on the battery or bodywork, but where am I needing to connect the other end to, in order to try and test the likely bad earths causing this sort of problem?

Thanks

________________________________________

'00 Astor Grey GTi-6
Team: 'EVO Triangle'
This is a quantum car. I don't know where I am, but I'm going really fast.
PS3 ID: Skaankypuppy
Normally play GT6
Posted 25th Jul 2013 at 20:02
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

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Post #6
transmission, where the engine loom also bolts down, then to the body/chassis leg in front of the battery iirc.

fan issues are more often than not caused by corroded terminals in the round plug to the fan cowling, similar to the main engine loom plugs but smaller, and not far away from them, and the bitron unit under the abs pump.


I do think you have two separate issues here, but both along the same lines.

make sure your battery terminals are secure, the main positive lead is clean and secure to alternator, starter battery and the main engine bay fusebox, pull out the jumbo fuses and clean them too.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 25th Jul 2013 at 20:17
bezza90

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Post #7
welshpug! wrote:
transmission, where the engine loom also bolts down, then to the body/chassis leg in front of the battery iirc.

fan issues are more often than not caused by corroded terminals in the round plug to the fan cowling, similar to the main engine loom plugs but smaller, and not far away from them, and the bitron unit under the abs pump.


I do think you have two separate issues here, but both along the same lines.

make sure your battery terminals are secure, the main positive lead is clean and secure to alternator, starter battery and the main engine bay fusebox, pull out the jumbo fuses and clean them too.


Actually, this may be pertinent. When I move the gearstick left to right, hitting the gate, the ECU light goes dim, then bright, everytime I go from one side to the other. That does seem to be in the same area.

I will have a good try on the weekend, would you agree it sounds earth like then Mei? Thanks, this has given me points to test now. The fact that is did work for 2 weeks means I'm hopefull it can be remedied and it's intermittent nature does seem to point electrically.

________________________________________

'00 Astor Grey GTi-6
Team: 'EVO Triangle'
This is a quantum car. I don't know where I am, but I'm going really fast.
PS3 ID: Skaankypuppy
Normally play GT6
Posted 25th Jul 2013 at 20:29
coskev

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Post #8
A jump lead can be used to test if you think you've got a broken earth wire.

Sounds like one of the earth's is not bolted to the top of gearbox to meThumbs up

________________________________________

Red GTB1756 powered Fabia VRS daily driver,LBSC Gti6 eater........

Mac1 ZR R1 kit car build in progress.
Posted 25th Jul 2013 at 21:22
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

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Post #9
It sounds like either an Earth not connected properly or broken internally in the wiring, or seeing as this has only happened since the engine change, it could be either the battery terminals loose or corroded or more than likely a bad connection down at the large round plug where the engine loom joins the front chassis leg. Yes

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 25th Jul 2013 at 21:44
jimmy_boy

Senior User

Location: Christchurch

Registered: 09 Jun 2003

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Post #10
I'd agree with the earth cable. They get shafted if the battery gets replaced for a smaller one and then move about in the box.

On a side note - that's the quickest 0-30 I've ever seen Whistle

________________________________________

GTI-6 & Rallye

Rallye gets sideways in the wet at Snetterton Ninja
Posted 25th Jul 2013 at 22:04
bezza90

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Post #11
Thanks everyone, this has given me something to go on and some hope too! It's a cracking engine and really pulls well (different league to my old one), just got to iron these gremilins out and it's nearly mint again after all my efforts to keep it on the road, it in danger of being a nice example now (bar a couple of door dings). Just need to sort this, then a wheel referb claybar and wax and it will be mint for a 14 year old car.

Fingers crossed I can nail this issue this weekend.

Matt

________________________________________

'00 Astor Grey GTi-6
Team: 'EVO Triangle'
This is a quantum car. I don't know where I am, but I'm going really fast.
PS3 ID: Skaankypuppy
Normally play GT6
Posted 25th Jul 2013 at 22:07
bezza90

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Post #12
jimmy_boy wrote:
I'd agree with the earth cable. They get shafted if the battery gets replaced for a smaller one and then move about in the box.

On a side note - that's the quickest 0-30 I've ever seen Whistle


LOL, it's pretty quick for sure if it was moving. I just hope I can sort it this weekend. Do you think it would be a case of just screwing something down more tightly, or replacing something? Or cleaning? I have a DVM if required, but do not know quite what to do with it regarding testing for things like this.

________________________________________

'00 Astor Grey GTi-6
Team: 'EVO Triangle'
This is a quantum car. I don't know where I am, but I'm going really fast.
PS3 ID: Skaankypuppy
Normally play GT6
Posted 25th Jul 2013 at 23:05
bezza90

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Post #13
Well it was a b**ch this morning, as I could get it started, but every time I selected reverse the problem came, so I couldn't get it off the drive initially. I seem to have zoned in on the problem area though. It seems to be related to the wires going into the Bitron unit for the fuel pump relay, as when I squeeze these, without moving any other wires I can get it to work, it's just keeping it that way.

I managed to get to work, the ECU light was on all the way mind you, but it ran and got me there. It did stall a couple of times when I came to a roundabout and had to select 2nd or 1st (it seems to knock the wires a bit with the gear linkages, but if I waggled the gear stick left to right, the flashing ECU light would lock on and I would hear the fuel pump prime, then I'd be back on my way.

I will investigate further tomorrow, but it currently looks like I'd need to replace that part of the loom. That is something that can be done isn't it? Obviously good joints and properly insulated joints with heat-shrink, but is this something that can be done to a loom? I'm fairly handy with a soldering iron and am confident I could make good joints and repair that bit, I just don't want to if it shouldn't be repaired that way.

Are looms interchangeable, as I've obviously got a known working spare, but my thoughts are it seems to be that cable to the black relay next to the fuel cut off button.

________________________________________

'00 Astor Grey GTi-6
Team: 'EVO Triangle'
This is a quantum car. I don't know where I am, but I'm going really fast.
PS3 ID: Skaankypuppy
Normally play GT6
Posted 26th Jul 2013 at 10:20
bezza90

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Post #14
After consultation from Ash, I have decided to replace the loom with my old one tomorrow. Fingers crossed it all goes to plan and it'll fly again.

________________________________________

'00 Astor Grey GTi-6
Team: 'EVO Triangle'
This is a quantum car. I don't know where I am, but I'm going really fast.
PS3 ID: Skaankypuppy
Normally play GT6
Posted 26th Jul 2013 at 11:21
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

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Post #15
Replacing the engine bay loom will take 30 mins once the inlet manifold is off. Makes sense if you have a spare loom waiting. Yes

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 26th Jul 2013 at 11:39
bezza90

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Post #16
stan_306gti6 wrote:
Replacing the engine bay loom will take 30 mins once the inlet manifold is off. Makes sense if you have a spare loom waiting. Yes


Hopefully it will nail it. I have also noticed this engine seems to have one of the PTFE gaskets for the inlet manifold.........I've always fancied getting one of them ever since joining the forum on 06, now I have one...result.

Fingers crossed I will post on Sat that I've done it and it's all working tidy. Then I will have to dedicate some fuel to go for a nice burn, especially if it's sunny!

________________________________________

'00 Astor Grey GTi-6
Team: 'EVO Triangle'
This is a quantum car. I don't know where I am, but I'm going really fast.
PS3 ID: Skaankypuppy
Normally play GT6
Posted 26th Jul 2013 at 11:48
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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Post #17
It really isn't difficult, and luckily now you have a PTFE gasket you can re-use it when you refit the manifold after changing the loom. Smile

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 26th Jul 2013 at 12:18
bezza90

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Post #18
stan_306gti6 wrote:
It really isn't difficult, and luckily now you have a PTFE gasket you can re-use it when you refit the manifold after changing the loom. Smile


Thanks Stan, I thought the inlet manifold gasket needed to be changed, as the one I removed from the old engine came off in pieces LOL Luckily now, as you said, I have the uprated re-useable part.

As a bonus, my wipe removal tool arrived today, so I can now replace the rear wipe motor too, so that will be working again too.

Nearly there..............

________________________________________

'00 Astor Grey GTi-6
Team: 'EVO Triangle'
This is a quantum car. I don't know where I am, but I'm going really fast.
PS3 ID: Skaankypuppy
Normally play GT6
Posted 26th Jul 2013 at 12:38
bezza90

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Post #19
Well it's almost certainly the bundle of cables going to the Bitron next to the fuel cut off. Had to stop (well stopped LOL) a few times on the way home and a mere squeeze of these cables brought it back to life, so it has to be that surely. I'm hoping anyway. The old loom goes back in tomorrow morning, so fingers crossed! Wish me luck and thanks for all your help guys, I've solved so many issues through this forum, here's hoping this is one more!

________________________________________

'00 Astor Grey GTi-6
Team: 'EVO Triangle'
This is a quantum car. I don't know where I am, but I'm going really fast.
PS3 ID: Skaankypuppy
Normally play GT6
Posted 26th Jul 2013 at 17:56
coskev

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Post #20
Prob worth checking the relay is plugged in correctly and connections are clean etc, and also check the ecu plug too.
As you moving the loom near the ecu could be moving the multiplug onto ecuThumbs up

________________________________________

Red GTB1756 powered Fabia VRS daily driver,LBSC Gti6 eater........

Mac1 ZR R1 kit car build in progress.
Posted 26th Jul 2013 at 18:51
coskev

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Post #21
And slap whoever it was (the ratRoll eyes ) about for letting the wiring get caught up with gear rodsRoll eyes

What a bodgerYes

________________________________________

Red GTB1756 powered Fabia VRS daily driver,LBSC Gti6 eater........

Mac1 ZR R1 kit car build in progress.
Posted 26th Jul 2013 at 18:53
bezza90

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Post #22
coskev wrote:
Prob worth checking the relay is plugged in correctly and connections are clean etc, and also check the ecu plug too.
As you moving the loom near the ecu could be moving the multiplug onto ecuThumbs up


Double checked the relay numerous times, sprayed with electrical cleaner, tried a second one too.

The squeeze I gave the wires was only gentle and I didn't touch any other part of the car. It really looks to me like that is the problem area. The proof will be tomorrow when I put my old loom back on.

________________________________________

'00 Astor Grey GTi-6
Team: 'EVO Triangle'
This is a quantum car. I don't know where I am, but I'm going really fast.
PS3 ID: Skaankypuppy
Normally play GT6
Posted 26th Jul 2013 at 20:22
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,838

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Post #23
just strip the tape off and check the wires, will take even less time than swapping the looms.

removing the battery box will give more space.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 26th Jul 2013 at 20:34
bezza90

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Post #24
welshpug! wrote:
just strip the tape off and check the wires, will take even less time than swapping the looms.

removing the battery box will give more space.


I'll try that before I start. Yes the battery box will be coming out too, in addition to the inlet manifold.

________________________________________

'00 Astor Grey GTi-6
Team: 'EVO Triangle'
This is a quantum car. I don't know where I am, but I'm going really fast.
PS3 ID: Skaankypuppy
Normally play GT6
Posted 26th Jul 2013 at 20:40
bezza90

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Post #25
Well it's all back together...........Never has the sound of a fuel pump priming sounded so good!

Starts, runs, one happy man.

Start to finish took me about 2 hours or so, but I wasn't rushing and stopped for a couple of cigarettes too. I did notice (practically once the whole loom was already out so I kept going) that the gearbox earth was not connected either. It is now for sure!

Just going to have a little spin in the old girl, although it won't be too far as there is not much petrol in it and I don't get paid until Wed, so have to eek it out, plus it's raining and I have an appointment with several stella!

Thanks again for all your help everyone.

________________________________________

'00 Astor Grey GTi-6
Team: 'EVO Triangle'
This is a quantum car. I don't know where I am, but I'm going really fast.
PS3 ID: Skaankypuppy
Normally play GT6
Posted 27th Jul 2013 at 17:02

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