displaying posts 1 to 17 of 17

Author Subject: GTI6 rebuild - quick cheap more power while doing so?
gjuk

Newbie

Location: Nottingham

Registered: 21 Jul 2013

Posts: 46

Status: Offline

Post #1
Hi all,

I've in the past built ford pinto engines, little tricks like skimming the head to increase compression and a bit of porting are known to work on a standard engine... After that, larger valves and a lairy cam and on from there.

That said, It seems i need to replace the top of my tapping gti6 engine.

Are there any quick power gains to be had during this process for little cost? Not really planning on ploughing a lot of money in to this car if I can help it!

I've found a good head for £80 posted to me. Gasket and head bolt sets seem to be around £110 ish

So, is there anything else I can do to gain power?

And, is there anything i need to do, to complete the replacement of the head properly? I guess a skim is required?

Thanks!

Jon
Posted 25th Jul 2013 at 10:35
darkgti6

Seasoned Pro

Location: Bracknell

Registered: 07 Jun 2008

Posts: 1,361

Status: Offline

Post #2
To be confident your putting a decent head back on id just pay to have someone build a head for you. Theres quite a few tasks that need special tools anyway.  Will mean parting with a bit of wonga but it will be very good quality.

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Posted 25th Jul 2013 at 12:52
darkgti6

Seasoned Pro

Location: Bracknell

Registered: 07 Jun 2008

Posts: 1,361

Status: Offline

Post #3
This is what rich told when I enquired. 16 new valves- New valve stem oil seals- All 16 seats are re-cut on a SERDI machine at 3 angles.- All valve guides are replaced or K-Lined- The head is then de-coked and glass bead blasted- The head is skimmed too

________________________________________

Team Peugeot Sport 308 Gti

Black T'99 Gti - may she rest in peace - written off in a shunt on the A329m
Posted 25th Jul 2013 at 12:49
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,838

Status: Offline

Post #4
valves are very big as std, and there's sod all valve to piston clearance, max head skim is 0.2mm.

if you want more power you need bigger valve cutouts and more cam duration.

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need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 25th Jul 2013 at 13:12
gjuk

Newbie

Location: Nottingham

Registered: 21 Jul 2013

Posts: 46

Status: Offline

Post #5
Thanks.

So, what is my bet route, should I just remove my head, have it chcked and replace whatever valve is slightly bent.

or buy a 'good' head from a long standing member on here?

Or, spend £350 on a good head from someone that has done everything to it?

I'm a bit miffed as it's about a 1/4 of the value of the car...
Posted 25th Jul 2013 at 13:14
rikky 🦔

Location: cheshire

Registered: 28 Feb 2004

Posts: 26,796

Status: Offline

Post #6
for under £1000 you're not even gonna get close to 5bhp!

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Posted 25th Jul 2013 at 13:20
gjuk

Newbie

Location: Nottingham

Registered: 21 Jul 2013

Posts: 46

Status: Offline

Post #7
rikky wrote:
for under £1000 you're not even gonna get close to 5bhp!


So by rebuilding my head, I will go from 170bhp to 5bhp? :-/.

Or do you mean, to gain 5bhp I would need to spend £1000+? I'll assume the later.

Posted 25th Jul 2013 at 13:52
rallyestyle

Seasoned Pro

Location: London

Registered: 23 Jul 2003

Posts: 14,990

Status: Offline

Post #8
gjuk wrote:
rikky wrote:
for under £1000 you're not even gonna get close to 5bhp!


So by rebuilding my head, I will go from 170bhp to 5bhp? :-/.

Or do you mean, to gain 5bhp I would need to spend £1000+? I'll assume the later.



The later would be correct Yes

It's pretty hard to get any more power out of these engine blocks with simple little touches during a rebuild. Cams will help in that department but from what i have seen over the years there has to be a sacrifice with them, namely driveability for power.

I think it's best to start by asking yourself how much power you would like to achieve and then you can consider your options Yes Thumbs up

________________________________________

Just Drive It
Posted 25th Jul 2013 at 14:00
gjuk

Newbie

Location: Nottingham

Registered: 21 Jul 2013

Posts: 46

Status: Offline

Post #9
Thanks,

Just wanted to check this, don't want to miss any quick tricks like a head skim which could be done during the process for little cost
Posted 25th Jul 2013 at 14:07
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,838

Status: Offline

Post #10
as standard its very hard to improve upon, it's no Pinto for sure LOL

if you are capable of taking the head off and apart yourself, I would do that and have a local machinist sort the bent valve/s, you'll save a decent chunk like that, no need to pay out £350 for a head.

you'll get 15-20 with the right cam choice, preferably a map afterwards which will cost you all in a bit less than a grand if you fit the cams yourself.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 25th Jul 2013 at 14:20
eliotrw

Seasoned Pro

Location: Southwark

Registered: 18 Jul 2010

Posts: 4,864

Status: Offline

Post #11
Maybe this is a good option?
http://www.306gti6.com/forum/showthread.php?id=156411&page=last

________________________________________

Ex- Phase 3 China GTi-6 T-Reg
Posted 25th Jul 2013 at 15:06
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,838

Status: Offline

Post #12
not really LOL

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 25th Jul 2013 at 15:09
coskev

Seasoned Pro

Location: Oswestry

Registered: 01 Nov 2009

Posts: 3,132

Status: Offline

Post #13
The age/mileage on a secondhand head now means it is false economy to fit it without a freshen up/checking over Yes

I picked up a second hand one to get rebuilt for mine, all valves were straight but it required new valve guides on the exhaust side due to wear.
Cost under £200 iirc for skim, pressure test, fit new guides, reseat valves, new stem seals, decoke Thumbs up

Read up on timing the engne up before you refit the head, lots of people get nice rebuilt heads then damage valves when timing up the camsRoll eyes

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Red GTB1756 powered Fabia VRS daily driver,LBSC Gti6 eater........

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Posted 25th Jul 2013 at 15:27
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

Status: Offline

Post #14
Coskev has some VERY valuable advice there regards the timing. Make sure you spend a few hours reading to ensure you've got your head round exactly what you need to do and that you are aware of the common problems people experience when doing this task. Yes

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Peugeot 306 GTi-6
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Posted 25th Jul 2013 at 15:33
darkgti6

Seasoned Pro

Location: Bracknell

Registered: 07 Jun 2008

Posts: 1,361

Status: Offline

Post #15
stan_306gti6 wrote:
Coskev has some VERY valuable advice there regards the timing. Make sure you spend a few hours reading to ensure you've got your head round exactly what you need to do and that you are aware of the common problems people experience when doing this task. Yes


What is the method Stan? Ive always fancied having a go at this job.

________________________________________

Team Peugeot Sport 308 Gti

Black T'99 Gti - may she rest in peace - written off in a shunt on the A329m
Posted 25th Jul 2013 at 16:05
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,838

Status: Offline

Post #16
Check the lower pulley is 100% regarding the position of the timing pin hole (70 degrees from the woodruff key slot form memory)

I usually do this by turning the engine over till I can pin the cams, if the crank doesn't pin up I get hold of a solid 8v pulley and compare.

do that, and you really can't go wrong, but so many do...


and that's before taking the head off LOL

once those few points are heeded, it really is a case of RTFM, Haynes that is, or Autodata.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 25th Jul 2013 at 16:32
dangti6

aka JKshooter

Location: Taunton, Somerset

Registered: 15 Jun 2006

Posts: 10,305

Status: Offline

Post #17
welshpug! wrote:

I usually do this by turning the engine over till I can pin the cams, if the crank doesn't pin up I get hold of a solid 8v pulley and compare.


My exact method Smile If the hole doesn't line up on the pulley when the cam pulleys are pinned it's obvious that the crank pulley has slipped within the rubber. I'd have thought other novices like me would work that out by just looking while turning it over.

I'd imagine the problems come from when people just turn the crank pulley until they can put a pin to the top and then they slacken the tensioners or remove the pulley and put the slipped one back in by turning it to line up when they put it back on. I would find it hard to believe anyone could make that error - Surely you'd have to be a retard to turn them independantly when you originally noticed it didn't all line up.

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  • Posted 25th Jul 2013 at 16:46

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