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Author Subject: Coolant Disappeared and Brown
RetroPug

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Post #1
The car was MOT'd last thursday night, and it wouldn't have gotten through the MOT with no coolant. Since then, I've driven the car spiritedly on B roads etc with no overheating and no problems. This rules out a hole in the radiator in the crash (I think). Yesterday, I drove the car and the temperature went from 0 to overheated in a very short 5min drive. I checked the coolant level after it had cooled down and all that's in there is a small bit at the bottom of the expansion tank that I can see, and it looks to be dark in colour.

When the car crashed (in january, has been run without issue since several times including hard driving as previously mentioned) there was a puddle under it but I assumed it was washer fluid as this also spilled everywhere.

From reading around, it would seem that if your heat exchanger goes, the coolant can get oil in it. However, this begs the question, where has all of the coolant gone?

I will try taking the car to halfords, pouring coolant in and watching to see whether it is coming back out and onto the pavement or not.

Does anybody have any other suggestions as to what may be wrong, how I might go about checking to see whether or not the heat exchanger is faulty, and where the heat exchanger actually is (I know, newbie question). I'd appreciate some input please as this car needs to make it to Germany in a couple of weeks and it sure won't be doing it aircooled. LOL

I'm about to go and have another visual check for leaks anywhere around the radiator/front of the car.

Thanks in advance!

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61k miles Ph.1 Diablo '6 Project Thread
Posted 8th May 2013 at 09:30
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

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Post #2
do not drive it without coolant.


stick some plain old tap water in now given you know it has a leak, no point wasting coolant.

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Posted 8th May 2013 at 09:35
gnrlee Forum Admin

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Post #3
Yeah sounds like a leak somewhere!
I'd just use water till you find it there's no point p**sing Coolant onto the floor
Hopefully you find and fix you can always drain it after and put coolant back in once you're confidant
You've found and repaired the leak,..

I wouldn't have thought it would be the head gasket?
Surely you couldn't loose that much water and not have head gasket failure symptoms

Fill her up and turn her over
Let the pressure build up and see if you can spot where it's coming from
Don't forget all 3 bleed valves while your topping back up to make sure you don't have any air pockets Smile

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Posted 8th May 2013 at 09:41
RetroPug

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Post #4
I have just gone and checked and the back of the heater matrix (its in front of the radiator right?) appears to have a few bent fins at the bottom.

I will try filling it with water to see if it comes out anywhere, thanks.

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61k miles Ph.1 Diablo '6 Project Thread
Posted 8th May 2013 at 09:49
welshpug!

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Post #5
PMSL

how would the heater matrix if positioned in the engine bay in front of the radiator heat the air coming into the cabin?



Laugh my ass off


that'll be the Aircon rad.

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Posted 8th May 2013 at 10:01
gnrlee Forum Admin

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Post #6
not sure what your looking at there?
the heater matrix is behind the Dash I believe,.
if that had gone you'd have a puddle of water in you're passenger footwell
this is what a heater matrix looks like



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Posted 8th May 2013 at 10:08
RetroPug

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Post #7
Thanks guys.

welshpug! wrote:
PMSL

how would the heater matrix if positioned in the engine bay in front of the radiator heat the air coming into the cabin?



Laugh my ass off


that'll be the Aircon rad.

Yep, I'm an idiot. Thumbs up

The back of the aircon rad has a few displaced fins right at the bottom on the side it was hit. There is a tiny bit of water between the two at the bottom but it did rain overnight and after filling with water and running the engine up to about 75-80 no more came out. There are also a couple of drops on the bottom of the rad housing under the car. With water in the system it wasn't overheating like crazy.

I'll check later in the day to see how much water is in there (bottle is not translucent enough). Oddly when topped up it appeared clear, perhaps it was just dark at the bottom.

I'm thinking that possibly I need to run it up to a higher temperature than this? I will have to look at this again this evening.

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61k miles Ph.1 Diablo '6 Project Thread
Posted 8th May 2013 at 11:01
eliotrw

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Post #8
I think hes looking at something related to the ac?

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Posted 8th May 2013 at 11:19
gnrlee Forum Admin

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Post #9
LOL look up
Welshy's already on it!

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Posted 8th May 2013 at 11:42
eliotrw

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Post #10
Haha indeed.

Retro pug try getting it to about 90 so you know the stat is open (its a 83c one)

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Posted 8th May 2013 at 11:49
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

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Post #11
Not that it sounds at fault, but the heat exchanger just for your info is found behind the oil filter and has two small coolant hoses going to it. Yes

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Posted 8th May 2013 at 12:13
RetroPug

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Post #12
I just found time to check and the level hasn't gone down at all. I will try running the engine to 90 later. Thanks guys.

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61k miles Ph.1 Diablo '6 Project Thread
Posted 8th May 2013 at 13:28
RetroPug

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Post #13
After running the engine at temperature and driving the car with the radiator re-filled, there has been no discernable loss of coolant.

There are a few drops of water between the aircon radiator and the actual radiator. Is it possible that if there was a hole in the aircon radiator, the coolant wouldn't leak unless the aircon was turned on, and that the reason why it was fine for several days and then suddenly all disappeared is because I drove with the aircon on?

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61k miles Ph.1 Diablo '6 Project Thread
Posted 10th May 2013 at 23:39
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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Post #14
No, the AC system and the engine cooling system are completely different and separately sealed.

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Posted 10th May 2013 at 23:47
sixysix

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Post #15
Is there dry brown rusty water stains anywhere?
Try following to where they came from if there is

Also, whats the seal like on the rad cap?
If its old, then under pressure could push all you're water through the top of the rad cap/filler neck??

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Posted 11th May 2013 at 00:27
RetroPug

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Post #16
I'm pretty sure the radiator cap is well-sealed.

The only place I can find any water is between the radiator and the AC radiator and it is only a couple of tiny drops. I also cannot get the system to loose any coolant again.

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61k miles Ph.1 Diablo '6 Project Thread
Posted 11th May 2013 at 09:32
buzzbrightyear

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Post #17
RetroPug wrote:

I also cannot get the system to loose any coolant again.

STAB THE RAD WITH A BEAR HUNTING KNIFE that will work

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Posted 11th May 2013 at 16:46
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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Post #18
buzzbrightyear wrote:
RetroPug wrote:

I also cannot get the system to loose any coolant again.

STAB THE RAD WITH A BEAR HUNTING KNIFE that will work


Laugh my ass off

Yes, that will certainly do it...

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Posted 11th May 2013 at 16:52
RetroPug

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Post #19
LOL It is losing coolant, but very slowly over the course of being driven a few times. It is no longer overheating when topped back up with water. There is pressure escaping when I open the rad cap (after letting it cool overnight).
I am noticing very small amounts of water between the aircon radiator and the radiator.

As previously stated, the coolant isn't brown as I first thought though.

Is this all still indicative of a small leak?

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61k miles Ph.1 Diablo '6 Project Thread
Posted 12th May 2013 at 00:42
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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Post #20
If it's losing coolant slowly and there is pressure in the rad from being left overnight then that's a symptom of early HG failure. The fact that you have a few small drips as well, sounds like you've also got a small leak probably at the bottom of the rad. Yes

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Posted 12th May 2013 at 08:11
coskev

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Post #21
LOL at the mot quote! Coolant level is not related to a cars roadworthinessThumbs up

Did you check the coolant before the mot?Roll eyes or when was the last time it was checked?

The trouble with slight leaks on the rad is that the coolant that leaks out usaully evaporates on the hot rad before it has chance to drip off the bottom of radYes

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Posted 12th May 2013 at 09:17
RetroPug

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Post #22
stan_306gti6 wrote:
If it's losing coolant slowly and there is pressure in the rad from being left overnight then that's a symptom of early HG failure. The fact that you have a few small drips as well, sounds like you've also got a small leak probably at the bottom of the rad. Yes

So it would be a good idea to change the HG?
Could holding pressure also be due to me topping it up with water and not bleeding the system properly?

coskev wrote:
LOL at the mot quote! Coolant level is not related to a cars roadworthinessThumbs up

Did you check the coolant before the mot?Roll eyes or when was the last time it was checked?

The trouble with slight leaks on the rad is that the coolant that leaks out usaully evaporates on the hot rad before it has chance to drip off the bottom of radYes

I didn't check it right before the MOT, but the coolant was flushed and replaced by a peugeot specialist in late 2012, and the tester said it didn't overheat at all whilst being run for the MOT, and it wasn't overheating whilst being driven for a few days after the MOT, and it definitely got up to temperature then.

Good point about the leaking water having evaporated though, I hadn't thought of that. It could be that a lot more water is escaping from there than it seems.

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61k miles Ph.1 Diablo '6 Project Thread
Posted 12th May 2013 at 11:17
coskev

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Post #23
Pressure in the system can deffo be related to it not being bled properly, also remember the coolant system does run under pressure, should not be a excess thoughThumbs up
When its upto temp you should be able to squeeze the top hose with your hand, if its hard and under alot of pressure you have problemsThumbs down
If you are losing coolant and its evaporating off the rad it will leave a stain still, so a good look over the rad and you should see itYes

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Posted 12th May 2013 at 12:02
RetroPug

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Post #24
Thanks for all of that.

My suspicion is that there is just a small leak somewhere, either from the original crash or possibly because a joint worked loose or the radiator ate a stone on my enthusiastic midnight B-road shakedown of the car last weekend.

I'll have a good look around the radiator this afternoon and try squeezing the top hose to check for excess pressure later. If there is excess pressure like you described what sort of problems would that be indicative of? Not just improper bleeding but something else, like HG?

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61k miles Ph.1 Diablo '6 Project Thread
Posted 12th May 2013 at 12:19
RetroPug

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Post #25
The back of the radiator was wet and a lot of my coolant had disappeared when I went out to check today. In terms of getting this repaired (and properly, it is driving to Germany in a couple of weeks and I don't want to cut corners) are there any viable options other than a new radiator?

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61k miles Ph.1 Diablo '6 Project Thread
Posted 12th May 2013 at 14:36

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