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Author Subject: Unplugging the PAS sensor
The Coolest

Junior User

Location: Tel Aviv

Registered: 15 Aug 2012

Posts: 64

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Post #1
Hey guys, I've got a cut out issue in neutral/clutch in.
The ICV has been checked, and it's clean. Since stuff is expensive around here I decided to look for other possible causes for this before replacing the ICV. I've learned that a bad PAS sensor can cause this problem as well, so I thought about unplugging it. I'm no mechanic (so I don't really have any tools other than some screwdrivers) and never really did anything more complicated than change a headlight bulb or check the oil... I've located the sensor, but it's pretty deep down there between the rad and the engine.
So the noob question of the day:
What would be the easiest way reach down there to unplug this sensor to test out this theory?
Posted 12th Dec 2012 at 12:40
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

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Post #2
You *can* get your hand down there and unplug it, or alternatively go in from the gearbox side under the manifold with a screwdriver and unclip the retaining clip and then pull the plug off. Yes

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Peugeot 306 GTi-6
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Posted 12th Dec 2012 at 12:42
smegal

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Location: Leeds

Registered: 26 Dec 2005

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Post #3
You may be better off either getting or finding someone with a peugeot planet or other diagnostics machine.

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Now in a Megane R26
Posted 12th Dec 2012 at 12:43
The Coolest

Junior User

Location: Tel Aviv

Registered: 15 Aug 2012

Posts: 64

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Post #4
Thanks for the replies guys Smile
I guess my hands are just too thick but I can't fit them through to get to it Sad

Before the cut out problem started last week, sometimes the idle RPM would not be stable or lifting the foot off the gas pedal didn't lower the rpm right away like it normally does. Had it plugged in then and no faults were detected.
Why I thought about the PAS sensor is that the PAS hose has been refurbed about 6 weeks ago and 2 weeks before the first sign of weird idle problem started.
One more thing is that after a cold start it seems to run Ok-ish until it warms up to operating temp, then it starts to cut out.
Posted 12th Dec 2012 at 12:53
coskev

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Location: Oswestry

Registered: 01 Nov 2009

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Post #5
Could be lambda starting to play up, as it only starts to send readings to ecu once the engine is upto normal tempThumbs up

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Posted 12th Dec 2012 at 16:22
beez_neez_gt

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Post #6
So the lambda causes it to just cut out, interesting !

Are we talking a few minutes warming up then cuts out ?

Does it not rev upwards very smoothly, like its struggling to go upqards ?

If so i have the same problem.

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Posted 12th Dec 2012 at 17:31
The Coolest

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Registered: 15 Aug 2012

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Post #7
It's a strange issue, it started with unstable RPM, which happened once in a few days and it didn't matter whether it was a cold start or not. It would rev up and slowly go down at idle, or it would just rev up and idle at over 1000.
When I'd change gears and release the gas pedal it felt like it revs up a bit. And if I held the clutch down the RPMs would stay up there and only go back to rev up and down again only after a few seconds.
This occurred both on cold starts and when it warmed up and went on for miles. After switching it off and starting it a couple of hours later, suddenly everything went back to normal.

I was at the garage on thursday, they hooked up to the ECU to check for faults, and found none. The Lambda values were good and everything looked "ok". So they told me to come back again when this was happening real time.

But Friday I went to the gas station, had it switched off for a minute (before filling up), started it up and it would just smoothly cut out, RPMs would just drop to 0. After filling up, same thing. But once in a dozen attempts it would hold idle and not stall.

Not sure how accurate this is, but as long as I start it cold and don't switch it off it seems to hold idle even when warm. But if I switch it off and try to start it up again it will cut out again and again.

First thought of the garage was a dirty ICV, but they took it out and it looked OK. It was a B1300 (I think) Magneti Marelli (made in USA). Since a new one at the garage was $190 + labor and they couldn't guarantee that it's going to sort this problem out for good I decided to try and see if there was a chance of it being something else.

So I heard of the PAS sensor issue, and I thought that it was possible that it was the reason since I had the hose refurbed not too long ago and maybe it was damaged or something, but I don't know... I'll see if I can get it unplugged tomorrow at daylight.
Posted 12th Dec 2012 at 19:08
coskev

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Post #8
Have you tried a ecu reset?

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Mac1 ZR R1 kit car build in progress.
Posted 12th Dec 2012 at 19:17
The Coolest

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Registered: 15 Aug 2012

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Post #9
Nope, haven't tried it yet. Actually don't know how to do it either.

beez_neez_gt wrote:
So the lambda causes it to just cut out, interesting !
Are we talking a few minutes warming up then cuts out ?
Does it not rev upwards very smoothly, like its struggling to go upqards ?
If so i have the same problem.


Nope, it actually revs up smoothly from I could tell, and when it's going it drives fine. Only problem is in neutral/clutch in.
Posted 12th Dec 2012 at 19:19
coskev

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Location: Oswestry

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Post #10
Disconnect battery, leave it off for 15 odd mins, reconnect battery, start the car up and leave it to idle with the engine under load (lights/heated rear window/heater on full)
Leave it like that till upto norm tempThumbs up

________________________________________

Red GTB1756 powered Fabia VRS daily driver,LBSC Gti6 eater........

Mac1 ZR R1 kit car build in progress.
Posted 12th Dec 2012 at 19:29
The Coolest

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Location: Tel Aviv

Registered: 15 Aug 2012

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Post #11
Thanks. I guess I'll have to work on it a bit tomorrow and see what happens.
Posted 12th Dec 2012 at 19:34
The Coolest

Junior User

Location: Tel Aviv

Registered: 15 Aug 2012

Posts: 64

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Post #12
I want to try to start with the PAS sensor, took a pic just now.
Clicky.
Just want to confirm that this is what I'm looking for with you guys.
Screw driver from the bottom was a no go, I could reach it, just, from the top but not enough leverage to push on the release clip and couldn't really grab the connector...
I think the best approach will be to simply undo the air intake, then I think I'll have access to that damned thing. I'll just have to call a buddy that may be able to help with the tool. This should be so easy, don't know why it never is for me with stuff like this Unsure
Posted 13th Dec 2012 at 11:51
coskev

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Post #13
Yeah that's it.

Should be able to get your hand to it lying under the car surely?

________________________________________

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Mac1 ZR R1 kit car build in progress.
Posted 13th Dec 2012 at 14:18
beez_neez_gt

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Post #14
Yes should be quite easy, try some sort of looped wire around the wire to help pull the plug off.

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Pick a Bogey, buy a Pug.

Black 306 GTI 6 Standard, was 60k mileage, bargain!!

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Posted 13th Dec 2012 at 18:48
The Coolest

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Location: Tel Aviv

Registered: 15 Aug 2012

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Post #15
Yeah.. Well I borrowed a set of sockets from a buddy of mine, I'll try again tomorrow morning.
Getting there from underneath the car would require me to jack it up and laying down on the road (no private parking for me yet Sad), so I preferred not to risk it.

BTW, if the issue ends up not being the PAS sensor. Is there a way to determine whether it's the ICVs fault or not without replacing it with another one?
Posted 13th Dec 2012 at 19:34
Niall

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Post #16
coskev wrote:
Could be lambda starting to play up, as it only starts to send readings to ecu once the engine is upto normal tempThumbs up


the lambda readings are true within literally 30-50 seconds. dont forget they have built in heaters to warm them up quickly.

tbh your symptoms sound exactly the same as mine which is a icv issue. ive proved it with a known working one. just need to be bothered to go and buy one now!
Posted 13th Dec 2012 at 20:53
coskev

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Location: Oswestry

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Post #17
Niall wrote:
coskev wrote:
Could be lambda starting to play up, as it only starts to send readings to ecu once the engine is upto normal tempThumbs up


the lambda readings are true within literally 30-50 seconds. dont forget they have built in heaters to warm them up quickly.

tbh your symptoms sound exactly the same as mine which is a icv issue. ive proved it with a known working one. just need to be bothered to go and buy one now!


So your saying the lambda is controlling the fueling 30-50 seconds after you start the engine from cold?Dunno

________________________________________

Red GTB1756 powered Fabia VRS daily driver,LBSC Gti6 eater........

Mac1 ZR R1 kit car build in progress.
Posted 13th Dec 2012 at 23:02
The Coolest

Junior User

Location: Tel Aviv

Registered: 15 Aug 2012

Posts: 64

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Post #18
Thanks for your help and patience with me guys Smile Finally removed the air intake duct and got access to the sensor, unplugged it in a second. But still the same issue:

First cold start, idle RPMs are a wee bit high at first. Car does seem to vibrate more than usual at idle.
Giving it some gas, you can still see the RPM climb a bit higher after letting go then go down, then up a bit... After it warmed up to temperature, everything was 'good' except that it felt a bit weird and a bit shaky. Turn it off, wait a minute or two. Start it up again, and it has a hard time to start and doesn't hold idle RPM and cuts out, tried it twice.

So the next step is to try another ICV?

Also found an oil leak - noticed the oil collecting on the bottom-right mount and dripping off it.

Posted 14th Dec 2012 at 10:46
beez_neez_gt

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Post #19
Coolant too from the pi cture. Check the back of the cam covers, im in the middle of this job now, just waiting to paint them.

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Black 306 GTI 6 Standard, was 60k mileage, bargain!!

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Posted 14th Dec 2012 at 12:52
The Coolest

Junior User

Location: Tel Aviv

Registered: 15 Aug 2012

Posts: 64

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Post #20
I don't think there is coolant involved here, just the flash from the phone's camera.
If it's coming from the cam covers, all I'll have to do basically is replace the seal?

Is your cut out problem constant or happens just once in a while?
Posted 14th Dec 2012 at 12:57
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

Status: Offline

Post #21
The seals on the cam covers are not available separately, you will need to reseal the original ones with some RTV or similar. Yes

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 14th Dec 2012 at 13:21
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

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Post #22
Have you tried unplugging the lambda sensor yet? I am in agreement with Coskev that this could well be the issue. Wink

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 14th Dec 2012 at 13:23
The Coolest

Junior User

Location: Tel Aviv

Registered: 15 Aug 2012

Posts: 64

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Post #23
Would that also affect coldidle RPM?
Posted 14th Dec 2012 at 13:31
beez_neez_gt

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Post #24
Mobile edit.

________________________________________

Pug fee`ver,

Pick a Bogey, buy a Pug.

Black 306 GTI 6 Standard, was 60k mileage, bargain!!

Clicky: [url =http://www.306gti6.com]click here[/url] remove the space between [url & =
Posted 14th Dec 2012 at 13:34
The Coolest

Junior User

Location: Tel Aviv

Registered: 15 Aug 2012

Posts: 64

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Post #25
beez_neez_gt, repost lol.
As I said it only looks like coolant because of the flash. I rechecked and it looks like oil.
Posted 14th Dec 2012 at 13:36

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