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Author Subject: Water & Oil Temps
ash j

Regular

Location: Fareham

Registered: 02 Mar 2011

Posts: 415

Status: Offline

Post #1
Hi guys,

Recently changed the gearbox on my 6, and whilst doing so, did a coolant change. Initially, it was blowing out cold air, until system was bled, then it started coming out warm.

It has been fine for the last few days, not boiling hot but certainly warm.

Tonight, I took the car out for a drive and all seemed ok in terms of the heater. Was sitting in the car with someone and left it running at idle for a short while as it was freezing outside!

All was good. Turned her off a couple of times and started her 15 mins later each time to get a bit of heat back in the car. Again all fine.

However, the last time I turned her on, it seemed to blow out just cold air. Water temp got up to about 90 on the gauge, but was still blowing out cold.

So I drive home, and noticed that the water temp got up to about 105-110 degrees, and the oil temp up to about 140 degrees (very hot) and then just as I got to the top of my road to turn into it, went to go down to 2nd and the car died on me, so I just rolled it the rest of the way down the hill and am going to leave it until the morning.

Any suggestions what this could be? Stuck open thermostat or dodgy heater matrix?

Cheers
Ash
Posted 27th Oct 2012 at 01:12
bigbadbowen

Seasoned Pro

Location: Winchester

Registered: 21 Nov 2003

Posts: 13,753

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Post #2
Air in the system bud but if oil has got round to 140 you may have cooked the bottom end Dunno oh and it would be thermostat stuck shut not open Yes

Best try bleeding again

Posted 27th Oct 2012 at 05:25
coskev

Seasoned Pro

Location: Oswestry

Registered: 01 Nov 2009

Posts: 3,132

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Post #3
If it's a true oil temp reading you have got serious probsSad

Even after a few good laps round donnington flat out mine didn't get that hot.

Pretty sure if the bottom end was really that hot you would of blown your coolant out of the rad overflow, was there any steam/smoke/smell from under bonnet?

As above, bleed it properly and cross your fingers.

I find holding the revs at 1500-2000rpm helps when bleedingWink

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Posted 27th Oct 2012 at 09:46
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

Status: Offline

Post #4
Yep, agreed. Sounds like a severe air lock. Give it another bleed and go from there. Thumbs up

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 27th Oct 2012 at 10:41
jeffers Forum Admin

Location: Leeds

Registered: 14 Dec 2003

Posts: 3,702

Status: Offline

Post #5
There's a key phrase in there, 'the car died on me' sounds like head gasket to me..........Unsure

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Posted 27th Oct 2012 at 10:53
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

Status: Offline

Post #6
Possibly, to be honest if the oil got up to 140 and the coolant up to 110 and then it died, it sounds fairly terminal to me. Sad

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 27th Oct 2012 at 11:46
jeffers Forum Admin

Location: Leeds

Registered: 14 Dec 2003

Posts: 3,702

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Post #7
stan_306gti6 wrote:
Possibly, to be honest if the oil got up to 140 and the coolant up to 110 and then it died, it sounds fairly terminal to me. Sad

Not good either way!

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Posted 27th Oct 2012 at 12:13
rich306

Seasoned Pro

Location: Portsmouth

Registered: 09 Aug 2009

Posts: 1,834

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Post #8
Luckily the engine still runs, it isn't terminal and we bled the system today.
Had a massive airlock in there which was caused by the bottom radiator hose not sealing correctly leaking the water.

________________________________________

Richies Project Rallye

Electrical work carried out in Portsmouth

jamiek_uk2000 wrote:
You'll need to throw money at the car. Not on parts. Just stand near your car and throw loose change at it, I find this increases performance for a short period of time
- Top Tip!!!
Posted 27th Oct 2012 at 20:58
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

Status: Offline

Post #9
All temps under control now then and the engine runs well? Unsure

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 28th Oct 2012 at 12:19
ash j

Regular

Location: Fareham

Registered: 02 Mar 2011

Posts: 415

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Post #10
stan_306gti6 wrote:
All temps under control now then and the engine runs well? Unsure


Not enitrely.

As Rich mentioned above, I inspected the coolant level the next morning and realised it was bone dry. So I went to top it up just so I could drive the car over to Rich's, and as soon as I started pouring water in, it came straight back out and left a puddle right underneath LOL

Turns out the pipe at the bottom of the rad, underneath the coolant tank had popped off.

So we managed to seal this up, top the system back up with coolant, and tried for ages bleeding the system. There seemed to be a lot of air in the system.

Rich did his best bleeding it and getting the air out, but we noticed that as soon as I picked the revs up to 1300-2000, the heaters were blowing out much hotter than they were at idle. Heaters seemed to drop in temperature quite a lot when idling, but we thought this was pretty normal.

Since then, the water and oil temps seem to have remained fairly ok. Oil temp is fine, runs at around 90 degrees once warmed up, and only increases a little bit if I'm giving it some, as expected.

As for water temp, it takes quite a long time to get any heat from blowers in the morning, and it sits at about 79-80 degrees when driving along. It does eventually get quite toasty warm after a while, and with the heaters on a lower speed. But they are certainly not as hot as I would like them to be.

However, as Rich experienced last night, if I am sitting in traffic for a little while, or going round a car park at 5mph trying to find a space (a busy car park), the water temp can work its way up to 90 degrees, and then it can quite quickly start getting up to 100-110 degrees. I have a different fan system to standard (don't use the Bitron unit) so my fans kick in at about 110 degrees. The fans kick in ok, and bring the temp down, but it does seem to get up to high temps fairly quickly when idling etc.

So we were thinking perhaps that this could be a dodgy radiator, thermostat, or maybe even an air lock still?

On the last couple of mornings since all this happened, I have noticed some idle problems on a cold start.

When starting from cold (car has been sitting overnight), especially on these really cold mornings now, it stutters really badly on idle for about 7-8 seconds, before clearing completely.

It seems to hunt a lot, and drops the revs to 500 then back up to 1000, and just stutters and hesitates quite a bit. Then after about 7 or 8 seconds, it completely settles itself into a nice idle and drives fine.

Personally, I am thinking head gasket. Something along lines of wet plugs on a cold start causing my issues to begin with.

I am hoping it isn't what I think, but that would be my guess.

But perhaps it might be worth changing my rad and thermostat, oand giving the system another bleed? Perhaps my heater matrix might need replacing to get hotter air from the blowers? And my idle issue on cold mornings could be something else?

Just seems to be way too coincidental to me that the water temp and oil temp got so high, radiator pipe popped off, and now having cold start problems!

Cheers for all the suggestions guys Thumbs up
Posted 30th Oct 2012 at 13:35
fatlapit

Seasoned Pro

Location: STOCKSFIELD

Registered: 02 Nov 2010

Posts: 3,040

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Post #11
Do compression test. if the rad gets hot your thermostat works or has failed open which is almost impossible. never heard of a dodgy rad tho.

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Posted 30th Oct 2012 at 13:44
eliotrw

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Location: Southwark

Registered: 18 Jul 2010

Posts: 4,864

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Post #12
This sounds like my car (To the letter) 3 months ago.
Before I had a head rebuilt new head gasket, radiator and thermostat.

catch my drift?

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Posted 30th Oct 2012 at 13:56
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

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Post #13
Sorry to say, but it sounds like it got cooked when you lost the coolant now the HG has popped. Sad

Problems with cold idle that clear pretty quick is one of the most common symptoms, especially with these engines. Yes

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 30th Oct 2012 at 14:38
ash j

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Location: Fareham

Registered: 02 Mar 2011

Posts: 415

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Post #14
I thought as much. Seems too coincidental, and whilst I have no obvious signs of water mixing with oil etc, I know cold start problems such as mine signal head gasket woes.

Cheers for the responses guys.
Posted 30th Oct 2012 at 15:34
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

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Post #15
The oil and coolant rarely get to the mixing stage on these, the HG normally fails between a cylinder and a water jacket, which is what it sounds like has happened to yours.

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 30th Oct 2012 at 19:27
ash j

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Location: Fareham

Registered: 02 Mar 2011

Posts: 415

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Post #16
I went to check the coolant level when I came out of work today (so car had been sitting for almost 10 hours).

I've noticed the last couple of times I have checked the coolant when engine is completely cold, that the system has pressure in it, and when I undo the cap, coolant is literally brimmed to the top.

Normal?
Posted 30th Oct 2012 at 19:33
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

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Post #17
Nope...

Deffo HG failure. Sad

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 30th Oct 2012 at 19:34
aaron6

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Registered: 16 May 2006

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Post #18
Head gasket I reckon. Start it up with the cap off and look for bubbles.

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Posted 30th Oct 2012 at 19:39
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

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Post #19
The fact that you've got pressure in the header tank after the vehicle has been switched off a while indicates what I thought above that the HG has failed between a cylinder and a water jacket and that is where the coolant is gaining it's pressure from.

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 30th Oct 2012 at 19:43
rich306

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Location: Portsmouth

Registered: 09 Aug 2009

Posts: 1,834

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Post #20
aaron6 wrote:
Head gasket I reckon. Start it up with the cap off and look for bubbles.


Funny that you suggest this, i did take the cap off the other day and watched as bubbles rose to the top.
Unfortunately though, i didn't recognise this as a potential problem! Sad

I'll do a compression test when i can, and report the results here i think. Wink

Anyone know the average price of a Head skim and pressure test, or anyone down Hampshire that can do it for a reasonable price?

________________________________________

Richies Project Rallye

Electrical work carried out in Portsmouth

jamiek_uk2000 wrote:
You'll need to throw money at the car. Not on parts. Just stand near your car and throw loose change at it, I find this increases performance for a short period of time
- Top Tip!!!
Posted 30th Oct 2012 at 20:41
woody.

Senior User

Location: London

Registered: 18 May 2009

Posts: 799

Status: Offline

Post #21
Rich is down your way mate and have only heard good things about him, he's on here under rich_w
Posted 30th Oct 2012 at 20:45
bigbadbowen

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Location: Winchester

Registered: 21 Nov 2003

Posts: 13,753

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Post #22
rich306 wrote:
aaron6 wrote:
Head gasket I reckon. Start it up with the cap off and look for bubbles.


Funny that you suggest this, i did take the cap off the other day and watched as bubbles rose to the top.
Unfortunately though, i didn't recognise this as a potential problem! Sad

I'll do a compression test when i can, and report the results here i think. Wink

Anyone know the average price of a Head skim and pressure test, or anyone down Hampshire that can do it for a reasonable price?


May only need to face the head not a full skim ?

Posted 30th Oct 2012 at 20:50
rich306

Seasoned Pro

Location: Portsmouth

Registered: 09 Aug 2009

Posts: 1,834

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Post #23
bigbadbowen wrote:
rich306 wrote:
aaron6 wrote:
Head gasket I reckon. Start it up with the cap off and look for bubbles.


Funny that you suggest this, i did take the cap off the other day and watched as bubbles rose to the top.
Unfortunately though, i didn't recognise this as a potential problem! Sad

I'll do a compression test when i can, and report the results here i think. Wink

Anyone know the average price of a Head skim and pressure test, or anyone down Hampshire that can do it for a reasonable price?


May only need to face the head not a full skim ?



You mean face as in gently sand the head down evenly?
Is this because this would be classed as a minor HG failure?

________________________________________

Richies Project Rallye

Electrical work carried out in Portsmouth

jamiek_uk2000 wrote:
You'll need to throw money at the car. Not on parts. Just stand near your car and throw loose change at it, I find this increases performance for a short period of time
- Top Tip!!!
Posted 30th Oct 2012 at 21:05
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

Status: Offline

Post #24
To be fair if it's lost a fair amount of coolant and got pretty damn hot before "dying" then I would imagine the head had been subjected to a fair amount of warpage. Sad

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 30th Oct 2012 at 22:29
rich306

Seasoned Pro

Location: Portsmouth

Registered: 09 Aug 2009

Posts: 1,834

Status: Offline

Post #25
stan_306gti6 wrote:
To be fair if it's lost a fair amount of coolant and got pretty damn hot before "dying" then I would imagine the head had been subjected to a fair amount of warpage. Sad


I wonder how much Rich would charge for a Skim and pressure test...

________________________________________

Richies Project Rallye

Electrical work carried out in Portsmouth

jamiek_uk2000 wrote:
You'll need to throw money at the car. Not on parts. Just stand near your car and throw loose change at it, I find this increases performance for a short period of time
- Top Tip!!!
Posted 30th Oct 2012 at 22:53

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