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Author Subject: Graphogen - When to change oil
tonyst

Newbie

Location: preston

Registered: 12 Sep 2012

Posts: 24

Status: Offline

Post #1
Yet another query. It's a Rallye that has the head skimmed, valves reseated and new stem seals. I'm just about to replace the cams and was wondering what effect the graphogen has on the oil. After a bit of searching on here and elsewhere various people recommend the following.

1 Hand turn the crank a number of times.
2 Turn on the starter with the plugs out until oil pressure is reached.
3 Run at 1500 to 2000 rpm for 15 to 20 mins.
4 Drain and replace oil.

Does this sound about right? And does the oil need changing again soon after to remove any remaining graphogen.

Another thing has just sprung to mind. I've noticed somewhere that the head has an oil non return valve. Should this be renewed or are these trouble free items. It seems that I'm renewing just about everything at the moment.

Thanks
Posted 16th Sep 2012 at 09:00
daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

Location: Southampton

Registered: 01 Oct 2007

Posts: 8,648

Status: Offline

Post #2
I'd say use a specific cam bedding in lube from the likes of Kent etc as any damage will be done in the first 30 seconds or so you therefore really want to make sure the stuff you are using is fit for the job. Prime up all oil galleries, remove cam covers and liberally coat with cam lube, the bottle is small, use all of it, make sure plenty goes onto the top of the lifter buckets, and spin over as you say with no plugs to get the oil pressure up without load. (put the cam covers back on first to avoid oil spray.
Then start her up and run between 2-3000 rpm for fifteen to twenty minutes, keeping a close eye on temperatures and oil pressure warning lights. At no point during start up or running in period should the car be allowed to idle. As for the non return valve if you are in any doubt change it.

Graphogen if you do decide to use it has no detrimental effect on the oil whatsoever, it will break down and be absorbed into the oil without issue. The oil change is to remove the microscopic metal particles created by bedding in the cams, these if left in the oil will accelerate wear.



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Posted 16th Sep 2012 at 09:12
coskev

Seasoned Pro

Location: Oswestry

Registered: 01 Nov 2009

Posts: 3,132

Status: Offline

Post #3
What is graphogen?

I use Joe Gibbs engine assembly lube,get it off e-bay.

Dissolves into oil so no need for oil change straight away.

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Posted 16th Sep 2012 at 09:23
daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

Location: Southampton

Registered: 01 Oct 2007

Posts: 8,648

Status: Offline

Post #4
Graphogen is a similar product it's a smooth grease, with a high graphite content, it's dark black unlike the Joe Gibbs stuff which just looks and feels like regular grease to me. (I've used both) personally I'd coat the cam bearing surfaces and lobes with graphogen, then pour on the cam lube to protect the cams as the graphogen wears off.

________________________________________

R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.

Some of my services: (See my for sale threads)
Engine mount/chassis repair
Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION
Harness bars
Posted 16th Sep 2012 at 09:28
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,769

Status: Offline

Post #5
daveyboy wrote:
I'd say use a specific cam bedding in lube from the likes of Kent etc as any damage will be done in the first 30 seconds or so you therefore really want to make sure the stuff you are using is fit for the job. Prime up all oil galleries, remove cam covers and liberally coat with cam lube, the bottle is small, use all of it, make sure plenty goes onto the top of the lifter buckets, and spin over as you say with no plugs to get the oil pressure up without load. (put the cam covers back on first to avoid oil spray.
Then start her up and run between 2-3000 rpm for fifteen to twenty minutes, keeping a close eye on temperatures and oil pressure warning lights. At no point during start up or running in period should the car be allowed to idle. As for the non return valve if you are in any doubt change it.

Graphogen if you do decide to use it has no detrimental effect on the oil whatsoever, it will break down and be absorbed into the oil without issue. The oil change is to remove the microscopic metal particles created by bedding in the cams, these if left in the oil will accelerate wear.


+1

Good advice there. Yes

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Posted 16th Sep 2012 at 11:12
coskev

Seasoned Pro

Location: Oswestry

Registered: 01 Nov 2009

Posts: 3,132

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Post #6
So we are presuming 'replace' means fitting new camsDunno

'replace' could be replacing the original cams in the headWink

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Posted 16th Sep 2012 at 12:47
tonyst

Newbie

Location: preston

Registered: 12 Sep 2012

Posts: 24

Status: Offline

Post #7
Sorry, didn't make it clear. I'm replacing the existing cams. The original problem was a head gasket failure.
Posted 16th Sep 2012 at 14:13
daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

Location: Southampton

Registered: 01 Oct 2007

Posts: 8,648

Status: Offline

Post #8
If re-using the old cams keep then you don't need to do anything special when refitting as they are already bedded in. I would still coat with assembly lube (graphogen or similar) and I'd have kept each lifter in order so it went with the same lobe of each cam. No bedding in will be required if all of the same parts are used as before, but still prime the oil as suggested earlier and keep an ear out for tapping lifters or valves if you've got something wrong. (Check for signs of valve to piston contact, if you had any before the skim you will smash the valves unless you retard the timing at this stage)

________________________________________

R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.

Some of my services: (See my for sale threads)
Engine mount/chassis repair
Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION
Harness bars
Posted 16th Sep 2012 at 14:48
tonyst

Newbie

Location: preston

Registered: 12 Sep 2012

Posts: 24

Status: Offline

Post #9
Thanks for that, so graphogen will do. At least I've got that, so I won't have to buy yet another thing. The valves were fine before the skim and it's going back with a repair gasket.

Thanks for all the help.
Posted 16th Sep 2012 at 15:15
coskev

Seasoned Pro

Location: Oswestry

Registered: 01 Nov 2009

Posts: 3,132

Status: Offline

Post #10
Just remember do not spin the cams too far without the belt on when timing up,as the valves can come into contact with each other and get bentThumbs down

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Mac1 ZR R1 kit car build in progress.
Posted 16th Sep 2012 at 15:56
tonyst

Newbie

Location: preston

Registered: 12 Sep 2012

Posts: 24

Status: Offline

Post #11
Cams in and pinned. That was a lot easier than expected. Just going to take advantage of the bit of extra room and give the block a bit of a clean before I put the head back on.
Posted 16th Sep 2012 at 17:58
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,769

Status: Offline

Post #12
coskev wrote:
Just remember do not spin the cams too far without the belt on when timing up,as the valves can come into contact with each other and get bentThumbs down


This is where most people have a major fail, and then can't work out why the valves have bent against the pistons because of course they haven't, they've tangled against each other. Yes

________________________________________

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Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 16th Sep 2012 at 19:48
jeffers Forum Admin

Location: Leeds

Registered: 14 Dec 2003

Posts: 3,702

Status: Offline

Post #13
Personally I would change the oil straight away after running. At the end of the day graphogen is graphite in oil, make no mistake. And metal on your oil system IMO is bad. I look after and maintain some fairly hefty engines for a living and I learnt old skool like, and graphogen just goes against the grain. Just my 2p's worth! Thumbs up

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Posted 16th Sep 2012 at 20:54

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