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Author Subject: idle and low revs issue, loads replaced no joy..CONTINUED
BlackSix

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Location: northampton

Registered: 30 Jul 2012

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Post #1
hey all, i bought a gti 6 quite recently and its got a fault.

when left to idle it misfires. the misfire gradually gets worse until you can feel the whole car shaking. it feels like theres the occasional misfire at around 2k rpm using light throttle.

the fault code that comes up is lambda malfunction type 2.

the parts that have been replaced are :

idle control valve
MAP sensor
throttle positioning sensor
green coolant temp sensor
lambda sensor (also tested, getting 12v from heater element)
coil packs
spark plugs
fuel pressure regulator

ive also unplugged the injectors one by one to see if the problem stayed the same while replicating the fault, no joy.

there are no vacuum leaks, tested at idle and at 3k rpm by spraying brake cleaner all around the inlet side and connected hoses.

any ideas on what to try next?
Posted 30th Jul 2012 at 17:28
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smegal

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Location: Leeds

Registered: 26 Dec 2005

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Post #2
Check that the exhaust isn't blowing.

I would also check the coolant level perhaps getting a garage to do a "sniff test" in case it it the head gasket.

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Posted 30th Jul 2012 at 17:38
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BlackSix

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Location: northampton

Registered: 30 Jul 2012

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Post #3
knew there was something i forgot to add. coolant level hasnt moved since i replaced the thermostat and topped it up, was sniff tested and found nothing.

the exhaust isnt blowing either (another part ive had to replace)

edit: its been tinkered about with today a fair bit, but the same fault code keeps returning after about 5 mins at idle. the EML stays off
Posted 30th Jul 2012 at 17:46
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dangti6

aka JKshooter

Location: Taunton, Somerset

Registered: 15 Jun 2006

Posts: 10,305

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Post #4
Timing?

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    • Posted 30th Jul 2012 at 17:51
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    BlackSix

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    Location: northampton

    Registered: 30 Jul 2012

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    Post #5
    it was doing it when i got the car and have since had a cambelt kit and water pump fitted. the locking pins just went straight in.

    its a really weird problem because when you start it youd never think there was a problem. then after a minute or so it starts missing once in a while and shortly after you can see it shaking the whole car.

    quick blip on the throttle sorts it out for a minute or so before it all starts again.

    there definitely doesnt seem to be any loss of power either and it starts first time
    Posted 30th Jul 2012 at 17:55
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    dangti6

    aka JKshooter

    Location: Taunton, Somerset

    Registered: 15 Jun 2006

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    Post #6
    Bottom pulley a good one?

    Any sign of head rebuild? Valve seals?

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    • Posted 30th Jul 2012 at 17:57
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    BlackSix

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    Location: northampton

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    Post #7
    the history says its had a head rebuild in the past but that was 60k miles ago. bottom pulley looks fine
    Posted 30th Jul 2012 at 17:59
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    BlackSix

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    Post #8
    something that has been suggested is the ECU. would this cause these issues?
    Posted 30th Jul 2012 at 19:37
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    stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

    Location: Kent

    Registered: 18 Jan 2004

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    Post #9
    From the symptoms you describe, it definitely sounds like a lambda issue...Yes

    Have you got any idea what kind of MPG you're getting?
    I know you said you have replaced the lambda, but it is possible that the wiring that leads to it has been damaged and therefore the engine is acting as if the sensor is playing up. Have you checked the supply wiring to the sensor to make sure it hasn't been chaffed/damaged/cut? Unsure

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    Posted 30th Jul 2012 at 19:54
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    BlackSix

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    Post #10
    ive only run through 2 tanks of fuel since i got the car, got 30 and 33 mpg measured by brim to brim method.

    from what i can see there isnt any damage to the wiring. im starting to worry because according to the only wiring diagram ive seen, 3 of the wires go to the ecu and the other goes to the engine bay fusebox (checked all fuses there, all fine)

    the amount of the sensor wiring i can see isnt great though tbh. with it hooked up to diagnostic machine it looks like the ecu is reading the lambda as the reading is constantly changing.
    Posted 30th Jul 2012 at 20:01
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    bigbadbowen

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    Location: Winchester

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    Post #11
    Try changing the power steering sensor bud ? Seen them cause all sorts of running problems when on the way out Thumbs up
    Posted 30th Jul 2012 at 23:27
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    BlackSix

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    Post #12
    i did try unplugging that earlier, didnt do anything. does it bring up its own fault code?

    i do remember seeing something to do with wiring that i wasnt too sure about, will check it in the morning
    Posted 30th Jul 2012 at 23:32
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    stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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    Post #13
    bigbadbowen wrote:
    Try changing the power steering sensor bud ? Seen them cause all sorts of running problems when on the way out Thumbs up


    This was going to be my next suggestion, although they generally cause stalling issues rather than a misfire.

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    2000 (X), Moonstone Love
    Posted 31st Jul 2012 at 10:45
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    stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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    Post #14
    BlackSix wrote:
    i did try unplugging that earlier, didnt do anything. does it bring up its own fault code?


    Yes it does usually. Yes

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    "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
    Peugeot 306 GTi-6
    2000 (X), Moonstone Love
    Posted 31st Jul 2012 at 10:48
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    BlackSix

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    Post #15
    the only code stored is lambda malfunction type 2.

    i disconnected the lambda sensor earlier, made no difference at all so does that point to a lambda fault?
    Posted 31st Jul 2012 at 17:10
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    stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

    Location: Kent

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    Post #16
    BlackSix wrote:
    the only code stored is lambda malfunction type 2.

    i disconnected the lambda sensor earlier, made no difference at all so does that point to a lambda fault?


    Yes it does...as I said I suspect some sort of damage to the wiring perhaps if the sensor has already been replaced...Wink

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    "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
    Peugeot 306 GTi-6
    2000 (X), Moonstone Love
    Posted 31st Jul 2012 at 19:10
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    BlackSix

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    Post #17
    so what would be the best method to test the wiring?

    and do you have any idea of what values i should be looking for it i were to disconnect the pug and test each pin to earth?

    edit: just in case....what way round is it meant to plug in or does it only go in one way?
    Posted 31st Jul 2012 at 19:24
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    stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

    Location: Kent

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    Post #18
    It can only plug in one way...

    The best way of testing the wiring would be using a multimeter check each wire for continuity so ensure there are none broken. They should all "bell" out on the meter. Yes
    There are 4 wires going down from the loom to the lambda sensor, you will need to find where the other ends of these wires go in order to test them.
    I think it's definitely a good starting place though. Yes

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    Peugeot 306 GTi-6
    2000 (X), Moonstone Love
    Posted 1st Aug 2012 at 06:41
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    BlackSix

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    Post #19
    ive continuity checked the wires, all belled out Sad

    its been decatted so can eliminate a collapsed cat, and ive checked for leaks in the exhaust and there are none
    Posted 1st Aug 2012 at 15:27
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    eliotrw

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    Post #20
    I was going to say pas pump but thats already been suggested.

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    Posted 1st Aug 2012 at 15:37
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    BlackSix

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    Post #21
    ive spoken to a couple of garages and theyve said ive eliminated everything they would try bar the ecu.

    dont really wanna pay out again if its not 100% the problem Sad
    Posted 1st Aug 2012 at 15:42
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    stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

    Location: Kent

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    Post #22
    BlackSix wrote:
    ive spoken to a couple of garages and theyve said ive eliminated everything they would try bar the ecu.

    dont really wanna pay out again if its not 100% the problem Sad


    Have to say I agree to be honest, it's an odd one. The next step would be to try and find another member who has a permanently unlocked ECU who wouldn't mind meeting up with you and letting you borrow their ECU and see if the issue remains or disappears. Smile

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    "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
    Peugeot 306 GTi-6
    2000 (X), Moonstone Love
    Posted 1st Aug 2012 at 16:09
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    eliotrw

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    Post #23
    Not far from leicester, maybe give Mechanical_Repairs a shout?

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    Posted 1st Aug 2012 at 16:14
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    stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

    Location: Kent

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    Post #24
    eliotrw wrote:
    Not far from leicester, maybe give Mechanical_Repairs a shout?


    Good call - I know he has stock of unlocked ECUs, will eliminate it one way or the other. Wink

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    "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
    Peugeot 306 GTi-6
    2000 (X), Moonstone Love
    Posted 1st Aug 2012 at 17:12
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    BlackSix

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    Post #25
    thanks. got his number from here will give him a call Smile
    Posted 1st Aug 2012 at 17:20
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