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Author Subject: Low boost hesitation/misfire
daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

Location: Southampton

Registered: 01 Oct 2007

Posts: 8,648

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Post #1
On my way to work this morning, started the car, drove to the end of my street and turned left at the T-junction and headed off uphill, I got into 3rd and was pootling along at about 25 letting it all warm up and it started to struggle and hold back is the only way I can think to describe it. AFR was well up arount 17-19 but it seems to be like that quite a lot at low engine loads or trailing throttle so I was'ntoverly concerned. The journey to work is short and with rush-hour traffic I never gotthe chance to strech her legs and see if it cleared or not. If I had a plug/ coil-pack failing I would guess I would get a similar symptom but see a richer mix if I was getting no spark on one cylinder as it would just be blowning through unburnt fuel down one pot. This leads me to think dodgy/blocked injector? Anyone experienced anything similar to this?

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Posted 7th Oct 2011 at 14:42
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simonjames

Seasoned Pro

Location: Whitland S.Wales

Registered: 23 Nov 2004

Posts: 6,219

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Post #2
Mine was doing doing this, hesitant under load to start then came undrivable, i changed loads of things untill i changed the pump to find a blocked pick up

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Posted 7th Oct 2011 at 15:02
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rich_w

Seasoned Pro

Location: Havant, Hampshire

Registered: 29 Jul 2004

Posts: 5,412

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Post #3
You got an AEM wideband AFR gauge / controller Jim?

These have been known to cause issues as described when in the narrowband lambda simulation mode.

It's also worth checking the lambda sensor is OK if you don't have the wideband.


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Posted 7th Oct 2011 at 15:39
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daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

Location: Southampton

Registered: 01 Oct 2007

Posts: 8,648

Status: Offline
Post #4
I have the AEM guage and sensor, not sure what spec the rest of the system is with regards to the original lambda and fuel pump. The injectors don't look original, they are green but not the dull olive green you get normally, more like a bright Kawasaki green if that makes any sense?

________________________________________

R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.

Some of my services: (See my for sale threads)
Engine mount/chassis repair
Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION
Harness bars
Posted 7th Oct 2011 at 16:22
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rich_w

Seasoned Pro

Location: Havant, Hampshire

Registered: 29 Jul 2004

Posts: 5,412

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Post #5
Yeah they are Bosch 020 150 558 440cc injectors and the right ones for the job.

I doubt they are at fault.

The problem is more likely to be electronic, possibly down to the wideband simulation of the narrowband sensor, or the lambda sensor itself, or another compensation table that affects fuelling like the CTS.

Does it do it when hot?

________________________________________

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07732 822546

Posted 7th Oct 2011 at 16:29
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daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

Location: Southampton

Registered: 01 Oct 2007

Posts: 8,648

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Post #6
First time its done it at all, and it was from stone cold.

________________________________________

R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.

Some of my services: (See my for sale threads)
Engine mount/chassis repair
Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION
Harness bars
Posted 7th Oct 2011 at 17:30
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mcfc1987

Seasoned Pro

Location: lincoln

Registered: 13 May 2008

Posts: 1,478

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Post #7
Never done that before and the car runs off the standard lambda, the aem is in a second boss and runs completely separately everything else. its just for show

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Posted 7th Oct 2011 at 18:06
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mabgti

NV motors

Location: Bham tunnel @7400rpm

Registered: 28 Aug 2003

Posts: 9,127

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Post #8
mcfc1987 wrote:
Never done that before and the car runs off the standard lambda, the aem is in a second boss and runs completely separately everything else. its just for show


Wise move as thats how i run mine..

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Posted 7th Oct 2011 at 19:36
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mabgti

NV motors

Location: Bham tunnel @7400rpm

Registered: 28 Aug 2003

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Post #9
My guess is the fuel pump with starvation uphill.. or injector wiring.. sometimes the dipstick can chafe as its squeezed tight against the plenum.

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Posted 7th Oct 2011 at 19:38
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roland rat

Yeeeah Rat fans!

Location: Swansea

Registered: 29 Nov 2006

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Post #10
I think youve been stung and bought a lemon Wink
Posted 7th Oct 2011 at 22:00
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daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

Location: Southampton

Registered: 01 Oct 2007

Posts: 8,648

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Post #11
roland rat wrote:
I think youve been stung and bought a lemon Wink


+1 Thumbs down

________________________________________

R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.

Some of my services: (See my for sale threads)
Engine mount/chassis repair
Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION
Harness bars
Posted 9th Oct 2011 at 12:00
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daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

Location: Southampton

Registered: 01 Oct 2007

Posts: 8,648

Status: Offline
Post #12
mabgti wrote:
My guess is the fuel pump with starvation uphill.. or injector wiring.. sometimes the dipstick can chafe as its squeezed tight against the plenum.


Now you mention it the fuel pump does seem to prime all by itself a few times after is switch off an get out. I don't remember it ever doing that before.

________________________________________

R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.

Some of my services: (See my for sale threads)
Engine mount/chassis repair
Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION
Harness bars
Posted 9th Oct 2011 at 12:02
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smegal

Seasoned Pro

Location: Leeds

Registered: 26 Dec 2005

Posts: 5,940

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Post #13
Take it to someone who has a diagnostics machine. I'd do it if I wasn't at the other end of the country.

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Posted 9th Oct 2011 at 14:37
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daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

Location: Southampton

Registered: 01 Oct 2007

Posts: 8,648

Status: Offline
Post #14
Rich W is taking a look this coming Saturday. It's not a lemon I just keep seeing lots of little jobs that need doing soon to stop it slipping into bieng a bit of a millstone. The thing I'm most bothered about is the fact that one front wheel has zero camber and the other has negative, so from experience it's got a bent hub carrier , shock, mis-aligned sub-frame or a combination of all three. Hopefully its just biffed a kerb a bit hard and shifted the subframe over a little as the boltholes have about 3mm of clearance to help setup the geometry.

________________________________________

R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.

Some of my services: (See my for sale threads)
Engine mount/chassis repair
Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION
Harness bars
Posted 9th Oct 2011 at 20:08
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welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,839

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Post #15
could be a non-pas balljoint, they are shorter.

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Posted 9th Oct 2011 at 20:11
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daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

Location: Southampton

Registered: 01 Oct 2007

Posts: 8,648

Status: Offline
Post #16
Cheers Mei, I'll have alook at that this weekend, hopefully that will sort the twitchy handling as it's not very confidence inspiring at the moment.

________________________________________

R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.

Some of my services: (See my for sale threads)
Engine mount/chassis repair
Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION
Harness bars
Posted 10th Oct 2011 at 10:25
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welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,839

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Post #17
does the speedo work btw?

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Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 10th Oct 2011 at 11:44
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buzzbrightyear

Seasoned Pro

Location: hiding all receipts for car

Registered: 09 Jul 2008

Posts: 11,901

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Post #18
can the front subframe reeally be pushed
Forward a
Few mm?

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Posted 10th Oct 2011 at 11:44
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daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

Location: Southampton

Registered: 01 Oct 2007

Posts: 8,648

Status: Offline
Post #19
buzzbrightyear wrote:
can the front subframe reeally be pushed
Forward a
Few mm?


Certainly, it's only held in place by six bolts and they have about 3mm of clearance on the holes, you normally find something else bends first though as I found out to my cost when I clouted a kerb in the snow. They often don't get put back exactly as they were so if they get removed for any reason get the tracking chercked over.

________________________________________

R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.

Some of my services: (See my for sale threads)
Engine mount/chassis repair
Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION
Harness bars
Posted 10th Oct 2011 at 12:37
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daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

Location: Southampton

Registered: 01 Oct 2007

Posts: 8,648

Status: Offline
Post #20
Just incase anyone is interested or has the same problem, I removed the plastic cover which goes over the coilpacks with a view to checking/replacing the plugs. What I found was that the coil pack on cylinder two was held loosely in place by one bolt, the other had the head broken clean off and the sparkplug beneath it was rattling around loose, the other three weren't that tight either. I replaced all four plugs even though they looked perfect and refittef the coilpacks with a new bolt and no hesitation has shown up since.

The car has also been rolling roaded to get the info on air/fuel ratio for peace of mind and it's running at a pretty safe 12.5:1 at WOT under hard load. The AEM guage is hopelessly out though so I need to contact them and see what can be done to reconfigure it to be more useful. Power was slightly down on what I expected at 235 BHP but I discovered and fixed the loose plug/coil after it hit the rollers so thet may have been a factor.

________________________________________

R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.

Some of my services: (See my for sale threads)
Engine mount/chassis repair
Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION
Harness bars
Posted 30th Oct 2011 at 23:46
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ballardpaul

Seasoned Pro

Location: Croydon

Registered: 22 Jul 2008

Posts: 4,135

Status: Offline
Post #21
Mine hesitates when cold, but i believe im the only one using the wideband lambda as the one for the car. I changed the setting to P03 and it doesnt do it anymore.

Maybe if you change the setting it will be more accurate?

Need to get Rich to look at it one day but the journey puts me off LOL

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Posted 31st Oct 2011 at 00:23
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daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

Location: Southampton

Registered: 01 Oct 2007

Posts: 8,648

Status: Offline
Post #22
I'll have a look at downloading a manual from Google, see if that makes it any better, cheers.

________________________________________

R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.

Some of my services: (See my for sale threads)
Engine mount/chassis repair
Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION
Harness bars
Posted 31st Oct 2011 at 10:23
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welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,839

Status: Offline
Post #23
http://www.schnitzracing.com/manuals/AEMWBK.pdf

How do you know its out btw?

________________________________________

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Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 31st Oct 2011 at 11:07
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daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

Location: Southampton

Registered: 01 Oct 2007

Posts: 8,648

Status: Offline
Post #24
Thanks Mei, I know the rolling road used a very expensive Dyno Dynamics AFR probe with a very new calibrated NGK lambda sensor on it. That and the fact the engine would've expired long ago if it was actually running at the AFR the guage indicates tells me something is'nt adding up Wink

________________________________________

R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.

Some of my services: (See my for sale threads)
Engine mount/chassis repair
Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION
Harness bars
Posted 31st Oct 2011 at 12:08
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