displaying posts 1 to 18 of 18

Author Subject: Pipe unions (how far in should they go?)
flynn_

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Location: Faketown

Registered: 29 Jan 2011

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Post #1
I think these unions are okay but there are some threads exposed, do they go far in enough?







Posted 19th Jun 2011 at 23:54
Rich E Forum Admin

Location: Hertfordshire

Registered: 27 Apr 2005

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Post #2
Yeah that looks fine.

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Posted 20th Jun 2011 at 00:13
flynn_

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Location: Faketown

Registered: 29 Jan 2011

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Post #3
Okay I had to check because I've only done it before. Better an unnecessary topic rather than a crash...

Edit to say, it seems that the width gets slightly wider further up I guess this could be some sort of safety feature to get a tight seal?
Posted 20th Jun 2011 at 00:15
cwspellowe

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Post #4
as long as they're in tight to squash the flared part of the pipe Thumbs up

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Posted 20th Jun 2011 at 18:36
flynn_

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Post #5
Hmm that's strange, I didn't know the flares squash as I didn't notice it on the old ones but I'll take you're word for it, thanks.
Posted 20th Jun 2011 at 20:51
daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

Location: Southampton

Registered: 01 Oct 2007

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Post #6
That looks terrible, the pipe should not be bent over at an angle like that coming out of the nipple. I like to have at least an inch of pipe left straight, helps if you ever have to cut an end off if a pipe siezes too.

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Posted 20th Jun 2011 at 23:15
flynn_

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Location: Faketown

Registered: 29 Jan 2011

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Post #7
The pipe was already in that shape the shiny one is the new one. The shiny one is straight but looks at an angle due to the hose.
Posted 21st Jun 2011 at 00:18
daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

Location: Southampton

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Post #8
I've got eyes, it looks bent because it is bent! Smile

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R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.

Some of my services: (See my for sale threads)
Engine mount/chassis repair
Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION
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Posted 21st Jun 2011 at 00:20
flynn_

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Post #9
You are referring to the last pic right? The other one looks straight to me but I'll take you're word for it :s
Posted 21st Jun 2011 at 01:20
buzzbrightyear

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Post #10
if you tightened these up too much would it squash the flare so much it would block off the pipe inside?

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Posted 21st Jun 2011 at 02:50
phillipm

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Post #11
^^It can do, especially if the flare isn't perfectly centered.

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Posted 21st Jun 2011 at 02:54
flynn_

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Post #12
Wow, who would have throught there was so much involved in connecting brake pipes together! Well if it has squashed I will find out when I bleed the brakes and no fluid comes through, ha! Although it was getting tight towards the end of the thread I think that was because the thread is slightly wider towards the end on the union nut to create a tight seal, hence why it got tighter, I don't think it was squashing anything (hope not!) lol.
Posted 21st Jun 2011 at 23:13
daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

Location: Southampton

Registered: 01 Oct 2007

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Post #13
flynn_ wrote:
Wow, who would have throught there was so much involved in connecting brake pipes together! Well if it has squashed I will find out when I bleed the brakes and no fluid comes through, ha! Although it was getting tight towards the end of the thread I think that was because the thread is slightly wider towards the end on the union nut to create a tight seal, hence why it got tighter, I don't think it was squashing anything (hope not!) lol.


Facepalm, it gets tighter at the end as the mating faces of the union and the comparatively soft flare on the end of the pipe crush together to form a hydraulic seal.

________________________________________

R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.

Some of my services: (See my for sale threads)
Engine mount/chassis repair
Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION
Harness bars
Posted 6th Jul 2011 at 00:02
flynn_

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Posts: 59

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Post #14
Okay no need for the snarkyness no one is born an engineer Roll eyes Bet you aren't this cocky in real life are ya now matey boy?
Posted 7th Jul 2011 at 23:11
daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

Location: Southampton

Registered: 01 Oct 2007

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Post #15
flynn_ wrote:
Okay no need for the snarkyness no one is born an engineer Roll eyes Bet you aren't this cocky in real life are ya now matey boy?


I am actually, you have posted asking how to do something right demonstrating that you are'nt confident, and all this experimentation is on a mates car who is trusting you to do a good job. You can't take chances with brakes, you have 'had a go' and you might have made good flares, you might have made shit ones, judging by the angle of one of the pipes, I'd say the joint is suspect, some cheapo flaring tools make a right mess of the flare which is just ripe for failure soon after, especially if the pipe does'nt go into the nipple square. I get things wrong often, look at my project thread for loads of evidence of that. But if I attempt something critical, I don't take chances and I don't ignore experts. (Before you say it I'm no expert automotive engineer, but I do know how to make good brake connections and how to bleed them after, because I was lucky enough to be shown by an expert) Some jobs can be tackled just using a bit of common sense, but safety critical jobs like braking systems really should be done with some experienced supervision first time around. I'd hate to think someone close to me got taken out by a car with failed brakes because someone was learning on the job. Here endeth rant.

________________________________________

R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.

Some of my services: (See my for sale threads)
Engine mount/chassis repair
Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION
Harness bars
Posted 8th Jul 2011 at 02:21
flynn_

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Location: Faketown

Registered: 29 Jan 2011

Posts: 59

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Post #16
Where have I ignored anyone? You're attitude is very confrontational and I doubt you would be so rude in real life. How is posting pictures to be extra safe a show of non confidence? It is a show of intelligence to get advice from people more experienced.

As I said in the other thread I am more than capable of bleeding the brakes and have made a good job of it. The pipe is supported by the union nut as it is screwed in, theres no room for movement between the nut and the pipe as they are a very tight fitting, so it won't be able to go in at an angle at the actual flare itself, it can only bend after the union nut.

Since this thread the brakes are rock solid so it's fair to say that they are safe, after testing them numerous times and having driven on them several times since.
Posted 9th Jul 2011 at 00:09
daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

Location: Southampton

Registered: 01 Oct 2007

Posts: 8,648

Status: Offline

Post #17
Your other thread is where you ask for advice you ignored, I guess thats why you ended up having to bleed the brakes twice using your gravity method, here is just one example where you show you don't know what you are doing:

"Wow, who would have throught there was so much involved in connecting brake pipes together! Well if it has squashed I will find out when I bleed the brakes and no fluid comes through, ha! Although it was getting tight towards the end of the thread I think that was because the thread is slightly wider towards the end on the union nut to create a tight seal, hence why it got tighter, I don't think it was squashing anything (hope not!) lol."

You seem pretty blase about it considering how important brakes are really. And as you have figured out how to do flares yourelf you will almost certainly be unable to tell a good one from a potentially bad one. I think you haven't taken the comments in the spirit they were intended. I applaud the fact that you are trying to learn something new, but trying to do it on brakes without prior experience or with someone present to supervise who is experienced is irresponsible, and I would tell anyone else the same thing.

FYI If you badly formed a flare (easy to do this if you are unfamiliar with the tool and overtighten it or the tool is poor the flare can be deformed and thinner than it should be. If you then overtighten the nipple (which you may well have done as you were unsure how far it was supposed to screw in) you can cut right through the flare. If you are lucky it will fail during bleeding, if not it could fail a week, a month, a year down the line or maybe never. But that's why it's IMPORTANT TO KNOW FOR SURE. I'm sorry but I could'nt be arsed to type out all my reasons for why inexperienced people should'nt tackle a braking system job, but assuming prior knowledge is an easy trap to fall into. Nothing personal and I apologise if it came across that way.

________________________________________

R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.

Some of my services: (See my for sale threads)
Engine mount/chassis repair
Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION
Harness bars
Posted 9th Jul 2011 at 01:00
flynn_

Junior User

Location: Faketown

Registered: 29 Jan 2011

Posts: 59

Status: Offline

Post #18
Fair enough. I actually undertightened the unions as they were leaking the first time I had tried to bleed the fluid through (as in like big drips) I then tightened them up until they stopped leaking. So if anything I was OVER cautious not to damage the flared ends by over tightening. Oh and I compared the new pipes to the old pipes and the flares looked the same.

I wouldn't consider my attitude blase compared to a lot of stupid questions asked on this forum that I have found during searching and the responses have been blase as well.

I tightened the unions until they stopped leaking, no more no less. I can't see any reason the flare would be damaged if they are good flares, which as I said I compared to the other ones and they looked the same. Still not sure what advice I ignored, I take all advice on board, it's the only way to learn, perhaps you are missunderstanding me.
Posted 10th Jul 2011 at 02:12

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