displaying posts 1 to 19 of 19

Author Subject: Brake pedal not holding pressure.
tom w

Senior User

Location: camberley

Registered: 03 Jan 2008

Posts: 523

Status: Offline

Post #1
Hello All,

I have just returned to the 306 but in a hdi form after a couple of year gap.

Loving being back in a pug and miss that brilliant handling they all come with.

Anyway she is a 2000 HDi d turbo.

The problem i have is the brakes have no power.

You cna pump them hard but the pedal will slowly move to the floor, when driving although wil stop i wouldnt want to slam them on.

So far i have...

-Stripped the front setup, re greassed and checked etc

-Bled the fronts and the rears, this was done twice on two seperate days. I have proberly run around half a litre of fresh fluid through so far.

-master cylinder seems dry and find
- all lines seem ok


Just hoping i could find any ideas as the braking system seems fine to me but ther must be a reason why ther pedal has no feeling and brakes are poor at best, so frustrating as everything seems ok.


any ideas? Could there be a vacuum problem cos its diesel?

Posted 25th Feb 2011 at 00:34
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,838

Status: Offline

Post #2
if there's no evidence of a leak the I'd fit a new master cylinder.

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Posted 25th Feb 2011 at 00:36
tom w

Senior User

Location: camberley

Registered: 03 Jan 2008

Posts: 523

Status: Offline

Post #3
But it seems fine, it looks like new.
I have never heard of one breaking before, do they go?

what are the symtoms?
Posted 25th Feb 2011 at 00:39
cress87

Seasoned Pro

Location: Norwich

Registered: 30 Mar 2007

Posts: 11,360

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Post #4
It may well look ok but you have no idea what condition the internal seals are in.

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Posted 25th Feb 2011 at 00:43
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,838

Status: Offline

Post #5
as above Yes

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Posted 25th Feb 2011 at 00:59
tom w

Senior User

Location: camberley

Registered: 03 Jan 2008

Posts: 523

Status: Offline

Post #6
Would you say that could be the problem then?
I have bled each corner a few times so I sure any air would ne out or least enough to reduce this. Although there has been no improvement from bleeding so far!


A mate said might need to bleed the abs block???
Posted 25th Feb 2011 at 01:48
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,838

Status: Offline

Post #7
ABS unit wont cause this unless you have some air stuck in there, certainly wont need replacing though!!

may be worth getting a garage to power bleed it.

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Posted 25th Feb 2011 at 01:54
tom w

Senior User

Location: camberley

Registered: 03 Jan 2008

Posts: 523

Status: Offline

Post #8
Yeah that's what first thought was!
Then could be servo, and vacuum pump?
Is there any way I can diagnose which one is to fault with out having to buy all ne bits?
Posted 25th Feb 2011 at 02:08
rallyestyle

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Location: London

Registered: 23 Jul 2003

Posts: 14,990

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Post #9
Is everything standard? No braided lines or anything?

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Posted 25th Feb 2011 at 19:22
tom w

Senior User

Location: camberley

Registered: 03 Jan 2008

Posts: 523

Status: Offline

Post #10
No all standard!
Posted 25th Feb 2011 at 20:35
rikky 🦔

Location: cheshire

Registered: 28 Feb 2004

Posts: 26,796

Status: Offline

Post #11
i did something like this on my 306 testing the servo for leaks, it involved holding pressure on the pedal and turning the car on and off, turned out to be the servo and i rebuilt it and it was fine. f*cker of a job mind

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Posted 26th Feb 2011 at 00:03
tom w

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Location: camberley

Registered: 03 Jan 2008

Posts: 523

Status: Offline

Post #12
I am not so bothered about the job just don't want to replace something and it not be that and have to do another one. End up replacing all the system could I put a 6 servo and ms cylinder on?
Posted 26th Feb 2011 at 01:45
davedgti6

Seasoned Pro

Location: whiston, prescot

Registered: 28 May 2006

Posts: 1,651

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Post #13
I have a similar problem, I replaced the master cylinder with a low mileage one I had, but pedal doesn't feel right, brakes are great but pedal has too long a travel and sinks a bit, does the Abs unit have to be plugged into the diagnostics to enable all the air to be purged out of it when bleeding? I know you can cycle the abs by stomping on the brake on loose gravel, but this has not worked,

I might end up getting a brand new master cylinder and trying that unless one of you wise men has a answer Smile

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Posted 26th Feb 2011 at 02:15
tom w

Senior User

Location: camberley

Registered: 03 Jan 2008

Posts: 523

Status: Offline

Post #14
Ok had another look.

With the car OFF ~
The pedal pumps up and goes rock hard and wont go to the floor.

Once turned ON ~

Will start to pump up and then slowly go the floor.

Would this mean it might not be the MC as it should be loosing pressure when off surely?
Posted 26th Feb 2011 at 04:18
cwspellowe

Seasoned Pro

Location: Calderbank

Registered: 19 Jul 2009

Posts: 6,496

Status: Offline

Post #15
I'd say that's a fair assumption. It also rules out leaky lines or unions too.

As a side note, the Haynes manual says that the 4-line ABS 306's don't have to be bled in any special way, the usual bleeding method works fine, so i don't personally think from that it's trapped air.

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Posted 26th Feb 2011 at 05:24
davedgti6

Seasoned Pro

Location: whiston, prescot

Registered: 28 May 2006

Posts: 1,651

Status: Offline

Post #16
Re-bled mine today, put a litre of fluid through the lines, no change No , gonna order a new master cylinder on Tuesday when I get paid, will let you know if it fixes the problem as mine seems similar to yours Sad

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Posted 27th Feb 2011 at 00:01
miles

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Location: Ringwood

Registered: 28 Dec 2002

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Post #17
Could well be the servo then, Mind you should hear it leaking as it normally comes out into the cabin, its not that common but does happen, Not a very nice job thou

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Posted 28th Feb 2011 at 03:43
davedgti6

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Location: whiston, prescot

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Post #18
I had a similar problem to this so thought I'd post up how I have hopefully solved it Smile ,

First I got a brand new Master cylinder off Lukejenks off here Thumbs up , bench bled the new master, fitted it, re-bled the system and no change Sad ,

Started thinking then it must be the Servo but could not find any leaks so must be trapped air, last night put another litre through still no change Doh ,

Done loads of research on the net so decided to remove all brake pads and push pistons right in, on the drivers rear the piston would not wind in for some reason, so I put one brake pad back in, removed the dust seal and then pressed on the brake, the piston came out far enough for me to clean it, there was a fair amount of crud around it but cleaned up ok and piston was in good nick tbh, the piston then wound in with no problem,

I then attached a pressure bleeder and put fluid through at 20 psi while also pumping the pedal, this got a tiny tiny air bubble out of the drivers side rear, more research led me to unbolting the rear calipers and positioning so that the bleed nipple was at the highest point, re-bled again,

More research led me to trying to bleed diagonally, i.e rear left, front right, rear right, front left, the haynes manual says front left, front right, rear left, rear right, so again pressure bled at 20psi while pumping the pedal and voila! I heard a big splutter of air come out of the right rear, test drove the car and pedal seems back to normal and brakes great again Smile

Don't know really what has solved it tbh, could have been the new master cylinder as the old one was leaking slightly where the reservoir joins, although any air pulled in here would surely just rise back into the reservoir, could it have been the sticking piston? Dunno , more likely it was just because my system was being a pig to bleed not helped by me having Wilwoods on,

Gonna order some decent fluid now to change the cheapo stuff in there now, any suggestions? I have tried Ate blue but was not that impressed although better than the crap I have in at mo, think I will put another litre of the cheap stuff through and then try summit decent like motul rbf 600

I have really faffed around with this and used about 12 Litres of fluid since Christmas -about £60 quids worth Doh , just made up to have solid brakes at last Smile

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Posted 20th Mar 2011 at 00:18
phillipm

Seasoned Pro

Location: Rotherham

Registered: 15 Oct 2006

Posts: 20,607

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Post #19
RBF600 is pretty good without braking the bank.

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Posted 20th Mar 2011 at 04:16

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