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Author Subject: Fixed -> Tapper or crank pulley slipped?
mikebee

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Location: Northampton

Registered: 17 Aug 2010

Posts: 122

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Post #1
Hi all,

Have been gradually fixing jobs on my GTi-6 since I picked it up a few weeks ago. It has a 'tap' to the engine which I put down to injector noise initially, but have noticed it more and more having read threads about 'tappers' on here.

Checked the spark plugs. All tight. Checked the compression and I got 192psi, 189psi, 190psi and 191psi so I don't think any valves are bent. Still getting this tapping though.

Vid of noise on YouTube

It had a new cambelt just before I bought it so the only thing I can put it down to is the crank pulley slipped and the tap is valve just touching the piston as the timing is out and they didn't notice.

The car itself pulls pretty strongly and runs smoothly, so it can't be out by much. Either this or a hydraulic tappet, but I've done a couple of long runs and it doesn't clear.

Anyone got any thoughts?
Posted 18th Oct 2010 at 01:01
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welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

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Post #2
owww!!! my ears!

its a tapper imo, they don't always lose compression.

a valve will be bent if its touching or ever has touched a piston.

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Posted 17th Sep 2010 at 00:43
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CUJ

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Location: Southampton

Registered: 18 Apr 2006

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Post #3
Sad

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Posted 17th Sep 2010 at 00:49
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jeffers Forum Admin

Location: Leeds

Registered: 14 Dec 2003

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Post #4
Probs a bent valve, mine ran perfectly after i buggered up doin the timing belt but on stripping had bent at least 2 valves on cylinder 3, replaced all 4 for peace of mind Sad

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Posted 17th Sep 2010 at 00:59
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mikebee

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Location: Northampton

Registered: 17 Aug 2010

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Post #5
jeffers wrote:
Probs a bent valve, mine ran perfectly after i buggered up doin the timing belt but on stripping had bent at least 2 valves on cylinder 3, replaced all 4 for peace of mind Sad


Did yours tap and sound like mine then?

This is not looking good Sad

Can the head be removed from these with the engine in the car?
Posted 17th Sep 2010 at 01:07
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felixthecat

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Location: Schwanstetten

Registered: 31 Jul 2009

Posts: 107

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Post #6
Mine sound exactly the same and there were 2 valves bent. You can get the head off without removing the engine but its a bit of a fiddle cause of the exhaust manifold.

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Posted 17th Sep 2010 at 01:18
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eddy_gti6

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Location: Durham

Registered: 20 Oct 2008

Posts: 8,716

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Post #7
get it fixed mate, mine was a tapper then this happend






snapped a valve and put a hole in the piston, head was totaly f*cked and was the bottom end so basicley new engine job. luckley i had spare parts to build a new engine.

if you loose power n throw white oil smoke out you no whats happend LOL

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Posted 17th Sep 2010 at 01:25
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CUJ

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Post #8
Mike it can be repaired Thumbs up

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Posted 17th Sep 2010 at 01:27
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rallyeash

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Location: Devizes

Registered: 11 Dec 2006

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Post #9
Sad head can be removed in situ but be prepared to loose some skin from you knuckles when gettin the zorst manifold off

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Posted 17th Sep 2010 at 01:28
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mikebee

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Location: Northampton

Registered: 17 Aug 2010

Posts: 122

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Post #10
This is really not good Sad

If it is a tapper I will definitely repair it. Have a very good machine shop about 100 yards from the house which is good!

Apart from the noise then, what's the best way to diagnose bent valves? Obviously the compression test is good, so the valves are seating properly.

Maybe I should just take the car to Carl as he's not that far up the road? Have PM'd him but no reply so I assume he's on holiday or not about?
Posted 17th Sep 2010 at 02:18
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jeffers Forum Admin

Location: Leeds

Registered: 14 Dec 2003

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Post #11
rallyeash wrote:
Sad head can be removed in situ but be prepared to loose some skin from you knuckles when gettin the zorst manifold off

Remove heatshield then Thirteen mil flex rachet spanner and your knuckles "should" stay intact! Wink

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Posted 17th Sep 2010 at 03:49
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karoshi

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Location: Sydney

Registered: 07 Mar 2010

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Post #12
To repair a brand new tapper eg. Slipped timing belt on otherwise brand newie, would just valves and guides be the go?
Seats should be fine ?..............pending inspection.

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Posted 18th Sep 2010 at 03:30
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Rich E Forum Admin

Location: Hertfordshire

Registered: 27 Apr 2005

Posts: 7,757

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Post #13
The seats may need re-cutting and do occasionally need replacing but they are usually serviceable.

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Posted 18th Sep 2010 at 03:36
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mikebee

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Location: Northampton

Registered: 17 Aug 2010

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Post #14
Will have a look this weekend and see if the crank pulley has slipped. I suspect it has and has caused top end damage Sad

Roughly how much am I looking at spending having the head fixed? Assume couple of valves and guides. Should I also have a skim for good measure or is this not required?
Posted 18th Sep 2010 at 15:30
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coskev

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Location: Oswestry

Registered: 01 Nov 2009

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Post #15
mikebee wrote:
Will have a look this weekend and see if the crank pulley has slipped. I suspect it has and has caused top end damage Sad

Roughly how much am I looking at spending having the head fixed? Assume couple of valves and guides. Should I also have a skim for good measure or is this not required?


I had four new valves,all valves checked,guides checked,all valves re-seated,pressure test,light skim for £193 at my local head place,Motorcast ComponentsWink

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Posted 19th Sep 2010 at 02:29
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welshpug!

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Location: Bigend, Wales.

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Post #16
only skim if required, i.e to clean up the surface or to correct any warping, certainly no more than 0.25mm Thumbs up

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Posted 19th Sep 2010 at 02:36
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mikebee

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Location: Northampton

Registered: 17 Aug 2010

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Post #17
Quick update for anyone who's interested.

Had a look at the timing today. Got the camshafts locked in place with 6mm dowels and checked the crank position - see attached. This looks out of time compared to the FAQ which has the key on the pulley in line with the two bolts.

I'm assuming this indicates the crank pulley has slipped??? Either that or it's a tooth out or wrong cambelt fitted. Will take the head off next weekend and have it looked at.

mikebee has attached the following image:

Posted 20th Sep 2010 at 01:11
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maddriver9

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Location: nr leek

Registered: 12 Mar 2008

Posts: 341

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Post #18
im having the same problem on the gti6 i just bought.
runs fine for two mins till warm then tapping like in the vid.
so after raeding this i think the head will be coming off for inspection.

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Posted 20th Sep 2010 at 12:39
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maddriver9

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Location: nr leek

Registered: 12 Mar 2008

Posts: 341

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Post #19
just done a compression test i got
210, 220, 200, 200.
Is it still likely that this could be a bent valve?

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Posted 21st Sep 2010 at 00:26
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welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,838

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Post #20
yup!

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Posted 21st Sep 2010 at 00:30
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mikebee

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Location: Northampton

Registered: 17 Aug 2010

Posts: 122

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Post #21
Another thought I had about mine. What would happen if a 136 tooth belt was fitted to a car with the tensioner from a 137 tooth belt (ie. my phase 3)? Presumably they'd either not be able to tension it or the timing would be out?

I am trying to figure out which belt to get... Seems quite a debate on here!
Posted 21st Sep 2010 at 00:36
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welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,838

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Post #22
you wouldn't get the 136 belt on with a 137 plastic sprung tensioner.

I'd get 136t, metal tensioner FTW.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 21st Sep 2010 at 00:38
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mikebee

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Location: Northampton

Registered: 17 Aug 2010

Posts: 122

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Post #23
Okay will do. Just read that you then need a different bolt to fit it in replacement of the 137 one.

Don't know why Peugeot make it so hard.... Would be much easier if they engineered it right in the first place rather than create confusion!
Posted 21st Sep 2010 at 00:40
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maddriver9

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Location: nr leek

Registered: 12 Mar 2008

Posts: 341

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Post #24
surely if a valve was bent it wouldnt close proberly.

mikebee does you car tap from start up?

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Posted 21st Sep 2010 at 01:03
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welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,838

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Post #25
these have double valve springs, which is one of the reasons the belts need changing more often, and also why a bent valve often still seals very well.

till the day it decides to part company with the stem that is...

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need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 21st Sep 2010 at 01:15
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