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| Author | Subject: 4-2-1 gti6 manifold |
 matty_rallye
Senior User  Location: Devizes Registered: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 966 Status: Offline |
Post #126
Yea i will get the results up when its done, only trouble is i have changed the exhaust to a 2.5" system aswell. So wont be a definite indication as the old system which turned out to be a 2" bore may have been restricting things slightly.________________________________________ 2.1 16v 306 Rallye. |
 Posted 29th Apr 2012 at 08:50
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stan_306gti6
Forum Admin Location: Kent Registered: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 21,768 Status: Offline |
Post #127
matty_rallye wrote: a 2" bore may have been restricting things slightly. Quite possibly... My system is a 2.5" so I am definitely interested in the results.  ________________________________________ "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"Peugeot 306 GTi-6 2000 (X), Moonstone  |
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Posted 29th Apr 2012 at 08:58
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buzzbrightyear
Seasoned Pro  Location: hiding all receipts for car Registered: 09 Jul 2008 Posts: 11,901 Status: Offline |
Post #128
clen666 wrote: With regards to exhaust, aren't supercharged applications more closely related to n/a than turbo? There are still exhaust pulses to factor in without a big turbo disrupting them This is what I'm thinking. ________________________________________ andrew315rawson@live.co.ukMoonstone phase 7 gti6 My Project thread: http://www.306gti6.com/forum/showthread.php?id=119992&page=1 |
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Posted 29th Apr 2012 at 11:24
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stan_306gti6
Forum Admin Location: Kent Registered: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 21,768 Status: Offline |
Post #129
Lets get "jimmyhackers" involved, hes bound to have a scientific take on the situation to add to the discussion.  ________________________________________ "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"Peugeot 306 GTi-6 2000 (X), Moonstone |
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Posted 29th Apr 2012 at 13:05
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buzzbrightyear
Seasoned Pro Location: hiding all receipts for car Registered: 09 Jul 2008 Posts: 11,901 Status: Offline |
Post #130
________________________________________ andrew315rawson@live.co.ukMoonstone phase 7 gti6 My Project thread: http://www.306gti6.com/forum/showthread.php?id=119992&page=1 |
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Posted 29th Apr 2012 at 16:16
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daveyboy
aka Jim Davey  Location: Southampton Registered: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 8,648 Status: Offline |
Post #131
stan_306gti6 wrote: clen666 wrote: With regards to exhaust, aren't supercharged applications more closely related to n/a than turbo? There are still exhaust pulses to factor in without a big turbo disrupting them Yes, but it is still forced induction therefore the gases will be moving much faster on the exit than N/A... N/A is looking for better ways of getting those gases to flow so that they exit quicker, whereas with a forced induction setup the gases are being blown out the chambers into the manifold at a much higher velocity therefore gas flow speed isn't such a great challenge to find as it is on N/A, which is why I would imagine you'll see a good gain with a 4-2-1 on an N/A car and not so much on a forced induction car. Not strictly true Stan, the exhaust gasses will only be 'blown' down the exhauset as you say when the throttle is open and both inlet and exhaust valves are open on overlap. As SC 306s use standard cams the overlap is very small so very little of the chargers extra pressure will go towards expelling spent exhaust gasses. What will be far more benficial is the gasses natural tendency to fill the vaccum bieng created by the last pulse of exhaust gas still traveling down the pipe towards the exit. If the primaries, secondaries and ciollectors are specifieed correctly (for a given rpm range you will get better cylinder scavenging and a more efficient/powerful air/fuel mix with the next stroke. Personally I think there could be some useful gains to be had with the right exhaust setup which is going to be in this case a 4-2-1. ________________________________________ R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.Some of my services: (See my for sale threads) Engine mount/chassis repair Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION Harness bars |
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Posted 29th Apr 2012 at 23:46
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stan_306gti6
Forum Admin Location: Kent Registered: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 21,768 Status: Offline |
Post #132
I see your point Jim, but I am still thinking along the lines of this:I am running 454bhp / 320ft/lbs torque. What more would I personally stand to gain by purchasing one of these manifolds?  ________________________________________ "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"Peugeot 306 GTi-6 2000 (X), Moonstone |
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Posted 29th Apr 2012 at 23:52
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daveyboy
aka Jim Davey Location: Southampton Registered: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 8,648 Status: Offline |
Post #133
More power and torque, oviously. I was'nt debating wether you should do it or not, I was saying there is more to be had if and when someone decides to persue it (Ashley Hargreaves for instance)________________________________________ R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.Some of my services: (See my for sale threads) Engine mount/chassis repair Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION Harness bars |
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Posted 29th Apr 2012 at 23:57
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stan_306gti6
Forum Admin Location: Kent Registered: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 21,768 Status: Offline |
Post #134
daveyboy wrote: if and when someone decides to persue it (Ashley Hargreaves for instance) That's a good idea... I would love to see what advantage it could give to someone like Ash, especially as he is doing well anyway with his current setup.  ________________________________________ "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"Peugeot 306 GTi-6 2000 (X), Moonstone |
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Posted 30th Apr 2012 at 07:10
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buzzbrightyear
Seasoned Pro Location: hiding all receipts for car Registered: 09 Jul 2008 Posts: 11,901 Status: Offline |
Post #135
I thought ash already hadA 4-2-1 Manifold ________________________________________ andrew315rawson@live.co.ukMoonstone phase 7 gti6 My Project thread: http://www.306gti6.com/forum/showthread.php?id=119992&page=1 |
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Posted 30th Apr 2012 at 10:07
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daveyboy
aka Jim Davey Location: Southampton Registered: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 8,648 Status: Offline |
Post #136
buzzbrightyear wrote: I thought ash already had A 4-2-1 Manifold He does, I was using him as an example of someone who would obviously want to maximise the outright potential of his SC conversion as every ounce of power counts in racing. ________________________________________ R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.Some of my services: (See my for sale threads) Engine mount/chassis repair Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION Harness bars |
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Posted 30th Apr 2012 at 10:44
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stan_306gti6
Forum Admin Location: Kent Registered: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 21,768 Status: Offline |
Post #137
Ok, however he is only running 410bhp though. Granted this is restricted to help gearbox life, but I would be REALLY interested to know a torque figure...________________________________________ "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"Peugeot 306 GTi-6 2000 (X), Moonstone |
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Posted 30th Apr 2012 at 13:41
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eliotrw
Seasoned Pro  Location: Southwark Registered: 18 Jul 2010 Posts: 4,864 Status: Offline |
Post #138
Which charger has he got? a 38?________________________________________ Ex- Phase 3 China GTi-6 T-Reg |
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Posted 30th Apr 2012 at 13:57
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daveyboy
aka Jim Davey Location: Southampton Registered: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 8,648 Status: Offline |
Post #139
stan_306gti6 wrote: Ok, however he is only running 410bhp though. Granted this is restricted to help gearbox life, but I would be REALLY interested to know a torque figure... Quoted from his project thread. Total Car Weight 908kg / 988kg with driver 335bhp/250lbft at 7,000rpm C30/94 Rotrex running 15.5psi boost 8:1 CR Wossner 86.0mm Forged Pistons PEC H-Section Rods 660cfm Siemens Injectors Shortened/ & Ported Standard Inlet Manifold with Trumpets removed Ford Ka Expansion Tank MJS Fabrications Alloy Radiator MJS Fabrications Alloy Intercooler Mocal Engine Oil Cooler Mocal Supercharger Oil Cooler 360mm Slimline Electric Fan Emerald ECU Manifold Group A Manifold Decat 2.5" Jetex Downpipe to Exhaust Joint Blueflame Cat-back Exhaust System ________________________________________ R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.Some of my services: (See my for sale threads) Engine mount/chassis repair Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION Harness bars |
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Posted 30th Apr 2012 at 14:00
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daveyboy
aka Jim Davey Location: Southampton Registered: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 8,648 Status: Offline |
Post #140
That may be an old spec though as some say he's got more power now?________________________________________ R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.Some of my services: (See my for sale threads) Engine mount/chassis repair Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION Harness bars |
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Posted 30th Apr 2012 at 14:02
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cjm_harris
Seasoned Pro  Location: Parts for Sale section Registered: 04 Dec 2007 Posts: 7,442 Status: Offline |
Post #141
On the recent thread Denis put up about Ash racing, Rich posted that he is now running the bigger C38 'charger ________________________________________ Chris1999 China Gti6 Supercharged  [Fun car] >>Project Thread<<2000 Bianca 306 Diesel [Work runabout] |
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Posted 30th Apr 2012 at 14:04
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eliotrw
Seasoned Pro Location: Southwark Registered: 18 Jul 2010 Posts: 4,864 Status: Offline |
Post #142
Ok, So hes got a bigger charger but at the same power (I.e its all way lower down)________________________________________ Ex- Phase 3 China GTi-6 T-Reg |
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Posted 30th Apr 2012 at 14:06
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stan_306gti6
Forum Admin Location: Kent Registered: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 21,768 Status: Offline |
Post #143
eliotrw wrote: Ok, So hes got a bigger charger but at the same power (I.e its all way lower down) It's not the same power, he was running 335bhp on the C30 charger, now he's running 410bhp on a C38. There just doesn't appear to be any info on the new setup's torque figure...this would be very interesting. ________________________________________ "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"Peugeot 306 GTi-6 2000 (X), Moonstone |
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Posted 30th Apr 2012 at 14:47
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic  Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,838 Status: Offline |
Post #144
in his application a broader punch of power would be most welcome rather than the linear delivery you get on the road biased conversions.________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 30th Apr 2012 at 15:52
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stan_306gti6
Forum Admin Location: Kent Registered: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 21,768 Status: Offline |
Post #145
welshpug! wrote: in his application a broader punch of power would be most welcome rather than the linear delivery you get on the road biased conversions. I agree and although mine is predominantly a road going application, I would think my midrange would benefit indefinitely from more torque which is why I'm interested in the figures. BHP is great, but if I could improve upon the 320ft/lbs I've currently got that would be awesome.  ________________________________________ "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"Peugeot 306 GTi-6 2000 (X), Moonstone |
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Posted 30th Apr 2012 at 16:06
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buzzbrightyear
Seasoned Pro Location: hiding all receipts for car Registered: 09 Jul 2008 Posts: 11,901 Status: Offline |
Post #146
I'd be very interested in getting more low down power________________________________________ andrew315rawson@live.co.ukMoonstone phase 7 gti6 My Project thread: http://www.306gti6.com/forum/showthread.php?id=119992&page=1 |
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Posted 30th Apr 2012 at 17:32
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eliotrw
Seasoned Pro Location: Southwark Registered: 18 Jul 2010 Posts: 4,864 Status: Offline |
Post #147
Have you mapped yours yet buzz? You should have the most low down power of all with that charger I hope? Greedy bas**rd  can't have it all for yourself  ________________________________________ Ex- Phase 3 China GTi-6 T-Reg |
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Posted 30th Apr 2012 at 17:55
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daveyboy
aka Jim Davey Location: Southampton Registered: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 8,648 Status: Offline |
Post #148
Nobody has thought to increase the speed of the charger so it's boosting earlier and providing more low down grunt.________________________________________ R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.Some of my services: (See my for sale threads) Engine mount/chassis repair Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION Harness bars |
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Posted 30th Apr 2012 at 18:05
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clen666
Seasoned Pro  Location: Co. Durham Registered: 12 Feb 2009 Posts: 2,401 Status: Offline |
Post #149
I had thought about this too, but I think the kit had been designed to reach peak input shaft speed at the top of the rev range, fitting a smaller pulley would mean it's operating outside of its efficient range ________________________________________ Team 'unintentional rat look' |
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Posted 30th Apr 2012 at 18:41
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fatlapit
Seasoned Pro  Location: STOCKSFIELD Registered: 02 Nov 2010 Posts: 3,040 Status: Offline |
Post #150
removing the trumpets will probably not help it tbh________________________________________ |
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Posted 30th Apr 2012 at 18:47
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