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Author Subject: NO SPARK :(
armzsc6

Seasoned Pro

Location: Crowborough

Registered: 22 Mar 2008

Posts: 3,445

Status: Offline

Post #1
Put a different rad in my low boost 6 yesterday, bled coolant out this morning and ran till warm etc did a few other little bits and bobs to it like pulled off the quickshift and changed the rear lights, swapped the bonnet from another car etc.

Left the car while I fitted a new steering rack to a mates car and after he had gone I went to drive mine out the workshop to give it a bath and it just cranked and cranked and eventually backfired massively..... Deff getting fuel then!

Fuel pump primes ok, injectors are firing as it backfires and plugs are wet, trie earthing out a plug and a coil to the head and no spark.....

Also to be safe I've checked the cam belt is fine and done a compression test as I never have on this engine since I put it in

1, 200 psi
2, 205 psi
3, 207 psi
4, 198 psi

So all good.

I've checked every fuse on the car for continuity and all are fine,

Pulled the plug off the crank sensor and found a corroded pin. Cleaned that up still no spark....

Does the crank sensor give the ecu a pulse that shows when to spark?

Fooked crank sensor? Got a spare cam sensor here so will try that in a min but otherwise I'm stumped.

Havnt really touched any wiring since it had been running.

________________________________________

Black power baby! SUUUUUPERCHARGED Superman
Seat Leon FR TDI 190BHP 300lbft daily gti-6 killer :p
12x 306's owned so far

Cambelts, clutches, service work carried out on All makes and models, Peugeot Citroen / mitsubishi specialist.
Pug planet / Citroen Lexia diagnostics / code reads available.
Posted 28th Jun 2014 at 20:00
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,839

Status: Offline

Post #2
got 12v to the coils?

relay is likely.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 28th Jun 2014 at 20:03
armzsc6

Seasoned Pro

Location: Crowborough

Registered: 22 Mar 2008

Posts: 3,445

Status: Offline

Post #3
12v while cranking? Will check in a sec. Fuel pump relay or another one that controls spark? Fuel pump one was brand new about 3 months ago also tried the old one (as nothing was wron with it) and still no spark

Gonna try a code read on PP2000 in a sec but doubt it will show much

________________________________________

Black power baby! SUUUUUPERCHARGED Superman
Seat Leon FR TDI 190BHP 300lbft daily gti-6 killer :p
12x 306's owned so far

Cambelts, clutches, service work carried out on All makes and models, Peugeot Citroen / mitsubishi specialist.
Pug planet / Citroen Lexia diagnostics / code reads available.
Posted 28th Jun 2014 at 20:06
armzsc6

Seasoned Pro

Location: Crowborough

Registered: 22 Mar 2008

Posts: 3,445

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Post #4
Checked accross no1 coil plug purple wire has earth and between the 2 there is 12v feed when ever the fuel pump primes but nothing when cranking.... Bizarre really!

________________________________________

Black power baby! SUUUUUPERCHARGED Superman
Seat Leon FR TDI 190BHP 300lbft daily gti-6 killer :p
12x 306's owned so far

Cambelts, clutches, service work carried out on All makes and models, Peugeot Citroen / mitsubishi specialist.
Pug planet / Citroen Lexia diagnostics / code reads available.
Posted 28th Jun 2014 at 20:22
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,839

Status: Offline

Post #5
sounds like relay is good then, but ecu isn't switching the power on when cranking, so likely to be the crank sensor I would imagine, I take it being a lynx ecu it is not able to be locked?

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 28th Jun 2014 at 20:38
armzsc6

Seasoned Pro

Location: Crowborough

Registered: 22 Mar 2008

Posts: 3,445

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Post #6
No as far as I know it was sent away to be mapped and returned as it was. I bought my charger kit from smegal about 2 years ago and got the immobiliser chip and ecu with it.

As it's injecting the fuel can't be immobiliser related I would have thought?

I've tried disconnecting battery and arming the alarm etc doing my nut in now. Ran fine about 6 hours ago.....

________________________________________

Black power baby! SUUUUUPERCHARGED Superman
Seat Leon FR TDI 190BHP 300lbft daily gti-6 killer :p
12x 306's owned so far

Cambelts, clutches, service work carried out on All makes and models, Peugeot Citroen / mitsubishi specialist.
Pug planet / Citroen Lexia diagnostics / code reads available.
Posted 28th Jun 2014 at 20:41
Niall

Seasoned Pro

Location: Epsom

Registered: 06 Jun 2012

Posts: 1,941

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Post #7
The multi relay also controls several power feeds to the ecu I think so may be worth a tap on it incase one of the relays is sticking!
Posted 28th Jun 2014 at 21:16
armzsc6

Seasoned Pro

Location: Crowborough

Registered: 22 Mar 2008

Posts: 3,445

Status: Offline

Post #8
Will nah it with a hammer lol but tried two relays and no spark.

Checked pug planet and surprise surprise no codes and doesn't show any movement on rpm from 0000rpm when cranking.

Would a crank sensor from an x reg 306hdi be the same? Presume it is? If so I'll swap it off one me and a mate are gonna break tomorrow see if it cures it.

________________________________________

Black power baby! SUUUUUPERCHARGED Superman
Seat Leon FR TDI 190BHP 300lbft daily gti-6 killer :p
12x 306's owned so far

Cambelts, clutches, service work carried out on All makes and models, Peugeot Citroen / mitsubishi specialist.
Pug planet / Citroen Lexia diagnostics / code reads available.
Posted 28th Jun 2014 at 21:26
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,839

Status: Offline

Post #9
yup it'll work.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 28th Jun 2014 at 21:47
armzsc6

Seasoned Pro

Location: Crowborough

Registered: 22 Mar 2008

Posts: 3,445

Status: Offline

Post #10
Thought as much I'll try that tomorrow. I've had the whole front end apart recently to change the intercooler for a high boost one and change the rad and fans setup as well as move the oil cooler. Have moved about the wiring that runs along the front crossmember a few times for various reasons but need damaged it.

I had een cranking it without the injectors connected so not to keep chucking in Vpower so last effort I thought swap the cam sensor, bash the relay, put brand new plugs in, connect everything up and fire it up.... Still no life and no spark.

Come back to it with a fresh head tomorrow but either crank sensor is dead, wiring problem somewhere or ecu is dead...

________________________________________

Black power baby! SUUUUUPERCHARGED Superman
Seat Leon FR TDI 190BHP 300lbft daily gti-6 killer :p
12x 306's owned so far

Cambelts, clutches, service work carried out on All makes and models, Peugeot Citroen / mitsubishi specialist.
Pug planet / Citroen Lexia diagnostics / code reads available.
Posted 28th Jun 2014 at 21:51
Niall

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Location: Epsom

Registered: 06 Jun 2012

Posts: 1,941

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Post #11
So did PP connect to the ECU successfully? If so, that ecu is getting all the power it needs so that's ok.
Posted 28th Jun 2014 at 22:29
armzsc6

Seasoned Pro

Location: Crowborough

Registered: 22 Mar 2008

Posts: 3,445

Status: Offline

Post #12
Yes mate read it spot on..... Read every sensor of the live data showed no fault codes.

Find it hard to believe a crank sensor can just die randomly with no signs of failing but the car is 17 years old and 142k old.... That's the only bloody sensor I don't have a spare I at work as well!

Will try a known working one tomorrow cheers for the input guys.

________________________________________

Black power baby! SUUUUUPERCHARGED Superman
Seat Leon FR TDI 190BHP 300lbft daily gti-6 killer :p
12x 306's owned so far

Cambelts, clutches, service work carried out on All makes and models, Peugeot Citroen / mitsubishi specialist.
Pug planet / Citroen Lexia diagnostics / code reads available.
Posted 28th Jun 2014 at 22:34
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

Status: Offline

Post #13
Another vote for the crank sensor. Yes

I know you said you've checked all the fuses, but just wanted to make sure, is the interior clock and mileage display working correctly, including the central locking?

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 28th Jun 2014 at 22:43
armzsc6

Seasoned Pro

Location: Crowborough

Registered: 22 Mar 2008

Posts: 3,445

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Post #14
Can't say I checked the clock mate to be honest was to busy swearing at it lol.

Central locking and alarm 100% work, as does mileage display. But yeh every fuse on the car for continuity with a multimeter. Saw on another thread fuse 6 in the car can cause non start but that's fine.

________________________________________

Black power baby! SUUUUUPERCHARGED Superman
Seat Leon FR TDI 190BHP 300lbft daily gti-6 killer :p
12x 306's owned so far

Cambelts, clutches, service work carried out on All makes and models, Peugeot Citroen / mitsubishi specialist.
Pug planet / Citroen Lexia diagnostics / code reads available.
Posted 28th Jun 2014 at 22:46
armzsc6

Seasoned Pro

Location: Crowborough

Registered: 22 Mar 2008

Posts: 3,445

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Post #15
And if the crank sensor doesn't cure it then I'm pretty stumped other than checking every inch of wiring loom and every connection.

Was promising to see no RPM reading on pug planet but most cars don't give data while cranking. The battery voltage did show the whole time though so it was streaming that while cranking.

________________________________________

Black power baby! SUUUUUPERCHARGED Superman
Seat Leon FR TDI 190BHP 300lbft daily gti-6 killer :p
12x 306's owned so far

Cambelts, clutches, service work carried out on All makes and models, Peugeot Citroen / mitsubishi specialist.
Pug planet / Citroen Lexia diagnostics / code reads available.
Posted 28th Jun 2014 at 23:02
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

Status: Offline

Post #16
Yeah, I was thinking of the good old fuse 6 issue. Yes

You could always try and run a jump lead from the head to the negative terminal on the battery to rule out a dud Earth...
If you've been working in the rad area, check the main circular connection at the lower inner wing to make sure it hasn't been disturbed/damaged.

I'm sure if you have access to Autodata, you should be able to find correct resistance tolerances for the crank sensor to be able to rule it out?

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 28th Jun 2014 at 23:25
armzsc6

Seasoned Pro

Location: Crowborough

Registered: 22 Mar 2008

Posts: 3,445

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Post #17
Every earth on the car was cleaned thoroughly a couple of years back when I out the new engine in but the car sits for half the year so I'll bridge one across tomorrow.

I already gave both the inner wing connectors a good wiggle this eve but plan is if crank sensor doesn't cure then they will both be apart and inspected for corrosion etc.

And yeh got autodata at work which has resistance checks on but they are never that accurate.

In my years at Mitsubishi I had several occasions where resistance checks on sensors or electronically controlled diesel fuel pumps were both showing to be miles out of spec according to te tolerances stated in the workshop manuals or autodata and yet when the new one turns up it's just as far out and didn't cure the problem lol.

________________________________________

Black power baby! SUUUUUPERCHARGED Superman
Seat Leon FR TDI 190BHP 300lbft daily gti-6 killer :p
12x 306's owned so far

Cambelts, clutches, service work carried out on All makes and models, Peugeot Citroen / mitsubishi specialist.
Pug planet / Citroen Lexia diagnostics / code reads available.
Posted 28th Jun 2014 at 23:32
ryangti6

Seasoned Pro

Location: Pontypool

Registered: 01 Sep 2006

Posts: 1,839

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Post #18
Sounds very much like a crank sensor and to be honest are one of the only sensors I've ever found to either work or not. There doesn't seem to be any in between with them to give any symptoms of being on the way out.

________________________________________

Ryan
Posted 28th Jun 2014 at 23:59
armzsc6

Seasoned Pro

Location: Crowborough

Registered: 22 Mar 2008

Posts: 3,445

Status: Offline

Post #19
Had a look earlier and the hdi has the later type 2 pin rounded square plug crank sensor.... Mine being a 1997 phase 2 has the 3 pin rectangular brown plug on a lead Sad gonna have to order one in from pug tomorrow morning as I'm pretty sure I Havnt got one kicking around at work..... Boss won't be happy my cars sea in the workshop tomorrow lol oh well

Edit: I say that but just had a good rummage in the random parts trays on the walls and found a brand new one haha. Will try it in a sec fingers crossed!!

________________________________________

Black power baby! SUUUUUPERCHARGED Superman
Seat Leon FR TDI 190BHP 300lbft daily gti-6 killer :p
12x 306's owned so far

Cambelts, clutches, service work carried out on All makes and models, Peugeot Citroen / mitsubishi specialist.
Pug planet / Citroen Lexia diagnostics / code reads available.
Posted 29th Jun 2014 at 19:49
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,839

Status: Offline

Post #20
GSF do these for £18.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 29th Jun 2014 at 19:49
armzsc6

Seasoned Pro

Location: Crowborough

Registered: 22 Mar 2008

Posts: 3,445

Status: Offline

Post #21
Fitted the f**ker and started on the button so chuffed to bits Big grin

So yeh if you get fuel and fuel pump priming but no spark then crank sensor is at fault! Worth remembering cheers for the input guys Thumbs up

________________________________________

Black power baby! SUUUUUPERCHARGED Superman
Seat Leon FR TDI 190BHP 300lbft daily gti-6 killer :p
12x 306's owned so far

Cambelts, clutches, service work carried out on All makes and models, Peugeot Citroen / mitsubishi specialist.
Pug planet / Citroen Lexia diagnostics / code reads available.
Posted 29th Jun 2014 at 21:24
Day666

Seasoned Pro

Location: Bristol

Registered: 20 Apr 2013

Posts: 5,214

Status: Offline

Post #22
armzs16 wrote:
Fitted the f**ker and started on the button so chuffed to bits Big grin

So yeh if you get fuel and fuel pump priming but no spark then crank sensor is at fault! Worth remembering cheers for the input guys Thumbs up


Thumbs up ...so are we going to see you & the car now at Pugfest .
Posted 29th Jun 2014 at 22:12
armzsc6

Seasoned Pro

Location: Crowborough

Registered: 22 Mar 2008

Posts: 3,445

Status: Offline

Post #23
Yes mate looking forward to it now, they send the tickets out this week Hyper I've got 8 runs booked and will probably buy more on the day. Even if something went wrong with the 6 I'd still turn up in the Leon TDI and show ya all how a diesel should go lol. Handles like s**te tho LOL

________________________________________

Black power baby! SUUUUUPERCHARGED Superman
Seat Leon FR TDI 190BHP 300lbft daily gti-6 killer :p
12x 306's owned so far

Cambelts, clutches, service work carried out on All makes and models, Peugeot Citroen / mitsubishi specialist.
Pug planet / Citroen Lexia diagnostics / code reads available.
Posted 29th Jun 2014 at 22:23
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

Status: Offline

Post #24
Glad it's sorted.

Crank sensor was the most likely culprit, enjoy Pugfest! Smile

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 29th Jun 2014 at 23:19
armzsc6

Seasoned Pro

Location: Crowborough

Registered: 22 Mar 2008

Posts: 3,445

Status: Offline

Post #25
If I had found the one we had at work sooner would have had the bloody thing sorted but never mind. First time my 6 has ever let me down in 6-7 years of ownership an was the original sensor so can't grumble really.

________________________________________

Black power baby! SUUUUUPERCHARGED Superman
Seat Leon FR TDI 190BHP 300lbft daily gti-6 killer :p
12x 306's owned so far

Cambelts, clutches, service work carried out on All makes and models, Peugeot Citroen / mitsubishi specialist.
Pug planet / Citroen Lexia diagnostics / code reads available.
Posted 30th Jun 2014 at 10:13

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