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Author Subject: Cam belt "a bit loose", problem?
docwra

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Location: Cambridge UK

Registered: 16 Jun 2009

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Post #1
Im looking at buying a 205 GTI-6 trackcar at the moment, using my 350Z is costing too much in tyres and while I reckon my 6 would be good, I can forsee wall/car interface and that wouldnt be so good LOL

The car Im looking at sounds ideal but the guy selling says that the cambelt feels a bit "loose", this might sounds stupid but do they run a bit loose anyway, or is it worth getting it done? Im booked at Rockingham at the end of the month so would prefer to do the day and get the cambelt done afterwards, any advice?

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Posted 5th Feb 2014 at 12:44
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stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

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Post #2
It's an odd thing to say to someone looking to buy a car "the cambelt feels a bit loose". Does he mean he's had the cover off and twisted it by hand etc, or that he can hear it slapping the cover or what?

You need more information on that one really. If you do decide to buy it, you could always run it over to me in St Neots and I can take a look/adjust it if necessary. If you need it replacing etc, I can do this too.

Cheers,

Stan.

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Posted 5th Feb 2014 at 13:57
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docwra

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Post #3
Stan, youre the man - he seems a pretty straight up bloke and I think he just found it was a bit looser than he expected when he took the cover off, I dont think theres any slapping or anything but it would be good to get some peace of mind.

This is kinds why Im asking what sounds like a stupid Q, Ill PM you in a second to get a cost as I only work about 20 mins down the road Smile

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Lots of Nissans, two 306 GTI-6's. They are catching up! Big grin
Posted 5th Feb 2014 at 14:21
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allanallen

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Post #4
It's easy enough to check specially if it's got the 'slidy' cambelt cover clip.
Whip the cover off, contort your hand down to the longest belt run (between the inlet cam and crank) and give it a twist, anymore than 90 degrees and it's loose Wink

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Posted 5th Feb 2014 at 14:25
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monty-69

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Location: Colne

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Post #5
I have checked a few of the 136 belts after only a few 1000 miles of fitting and they all felt too loose. imo the belt is too small for the the job. The 137 tensioner seems the better design. Yes
Posted 5th Feb 2014 at 19:31
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buzzbrightyear

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Post #6
monty-69 wrote:
I have checked a few of the 136 belts after only a few 1000 miles of fitting and they all felt too loose. imo the belt is too small for the the job. The 137 tensioner seems the better design. Yes


You mean the belt seems too big?
if it was too small it would be tighter wouldn't it?

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My Project thread: http://www.306gti6.com/forum/showthread.php?id=119992&page=1
Posted 5th Feb 2014 at 19:42
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armzsc6

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Post #7
allanallen wrote:
It's easy enough to check specially if it's got the 'slidy' cambelt cover clip.
Whip the cover off, contort your hand down to the longest belt run (between the inlet cam and crank) and give it a twist, anymore than 90 degrees and it's loose Wink


90? Unsure you mean 45 degrees?

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Posted 5th Feb 2014 at 22:56
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allanallen

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Post #8
45 for a new belt, I find once once they've run a bit, re-tightening to 45 (firm feel) makes them wine like your missis with a hangover

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Posted 6th Feb 2014 at 06:52
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oldbrownshoe

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Post #9
What about tension measuring tool like this ?



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Posted 6th Feb 2014 at 09:10
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scotzman

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Post #10
Kind of tight for using anything like that with the engine in the car.

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'90 1.6 205 GTi, '98 306 GTi-6
Posted 6th Feb 2014 at 09:30
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docwra

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Post #11
90 degrees would be a bit much I reckon Unsure

Cheers to all who have replied, Ill give it a twist when I get up there and probably risk Rockingham regardless LOL

I was going to use my 6 but reckon this will be more fun, Im just about to get in touch with the guy now - pics to follow Wink

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Lots of Nissans, two 306 GTI-6's. They are catching up! Big grin
Posted 6th Feb 2014 at 10:13
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allanallen

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Post #12
docwra wrote:
90 degrees would be a bit much I reckon Unsure



What's the point of your topic if you already 'know' the answer?

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Posted 6th Feb 2014 at 10:20
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docwra

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Post #13
allanallen wrote:
docwra wrote:
90 degrees would be a bit much I reckon Unsure



What's the point of your topic if you already 'know' the answer?



Seriously? Youre telling me that anything less than 90 degrees is fine? Someone has said 45, which makes a lot more sense to me, is he wrong?

Im not being clever here mate, Ive had two different answers on this thread, which is correct?

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Lots of Nissans, two 306 GTI-6's. They are catching up! Big grin
Posted 6th Feb 2014 at 10:31
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allanallen

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Post #14
F&Q on here for fitting a cambelt says 45 is too tight and says 75 for a new belt. I'm saying through experience of doing many belts and messing endlessly with cam timing that 90 is more realistic on a used belt. 45 will whine, work on anything between 75 and 90 and it'll be fine. At the end of the day everyone has a different take on what a 'moderate feel' is anyway so it's all pie in the sky.

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Posted 6th Feb 2014 at 10:49
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allanallen

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Post #15
Also worth noting that when twisting the belt to check there shouldn't be any slack in between the two cam pullies, this can happen depending on where the engine has come to rest.

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Posted 6th Feb 2014 at 10:53
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monty-69

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Post #16
I meant the belt is designed too thin for and narrow for this engine hence all the belt failures.

Id recommend using a tensioning gauge for the 136 kit rather than the old skool twisting the belt method.
Posted 6th Feb 2014 at 11:51
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allanallen

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Post #17
I was under the impression it was tensioner/idler bearing failure that was the main reasons for belts going, plus the Internet multiplication factor and scare mongering. Not to mention garages not replacing tensioners when they say they have......

Lots of 16v engines use the same width and profiled belt, some even having the added stresses of cam driven pas pumps, heavier valve springs etc.

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Posted 6th Feb 2014 at 12:10
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armzsc6

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Post #18
I've had years of experience doing belts from large quad cam V6 or v8 engines to small single cam petrol engines. When setting a belt new it should be 45 degrees of twist in my experience however once it's run in then up to about 75 would be acceptable.

The last time I did a belt to this level and checked it with a tension gauge as shown above it was spot on from seeing with 45 degrees of twist.

Belt failures on a 6 engine are common due to water pump failure or siezure, over tension, incorrect tension procedure or poor cam timing.
I've also had my own belt on my previous phase 2 engine keep gettin a lump of slack after about 6 months even when it's been tensioned correctly with Locked cams and pullys nice and free. Never found out why, yet the same belt type has been on my charged engine I rebuilt from scratch for 2 years now and is still a 45 degree twist.


Anyway my advice is I it's more than 75 degrees twist ten get it changed. It's not advisable to re-tension a belt on an engine that's known to have problems so get a new one and water pump / rollers etc at the same time for piece of mind.

________________________________________

Black power baby! SUUUUUPERCHARGED Superman
Seat Leon FR TDI 190BHP 300lbft daily gti-6 killer :p
12x 306's owned so far

Cambelts, clutches, service work carried out on All makes and models, Peugeot Citroen / mitsubishi specialist.
Pug planet / Citroen Lexia diagnostics / code reads available.
Posted 6th Feb 2014 at 14:06
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oldbrownshoe

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Registered: 08 Aug 2008

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Post #19
I just replace belt,pump & tensioners every 3 years or 30k m (the first to occur).

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French military victories?
Did you mean French military defeats?
Posted 6th Feb 2014 at 16:06
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allanallen

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Post #20
Belt twist should not always be 45 degrees when new?! The longer the belt run is the more twist to be expected. An mi16 for instance is 90 degrees, from memory an 8 valve tu is the same.

As I said before, moderate pressure varies between people , your 75 could be my 90 etc etc blah blah blah Razz

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Posted 6th Feb 2014 at 17:31
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