Max boosted power on std bottom end - General Forum - Peugeot 306 GTi-6 & Rallye Owners Club

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Subject: Max boosted power on std bottom end

JWP EFi

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Post #1

I read in an old thread that when Rich first built his S.charger conversion he took the original engine up to ~290 bhp but then wound it down a bit for ultimate reliability, i also read that some LB owners had opened up the restrictor ring to see around 300bhp-still on a standard bottom end. Does anyone know if these engines survived and is anyone still running with this sort of power on stock C/R?
I ask because i'm building up another turbo engine and aiming for ~100 bhp over standard and can't decide on what to bottom end wise, i'm very tempted to do the tried and tested 8v turbo bottom end/16v hybrid but i have read of / seen a few boosted conversions (turbo and super) that retained standard C/R with good long lasting results

Posted 1st Dec 2013 at 22:37

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eliotrw

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Post #2

Some blokes in brazil had 450 hp on standard bottom ends with ethanol I believe.
he even ran it like that for quite a while.

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Posted 2nd Dec 2013 at 00:11

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allanallen

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Post #3

I'm just finishing off the loom in a gti6 turbo for a friend, think he'll be capping the power around 270bhp and limiting the revs to 7k as the engine is completely standard, suck and see to be honest. It's a bit of a unknown and there's far too many factors to say what an engine can or can't take.

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Posted 2nd Dec 2013 at 05:58

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stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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Post #4

Standard bottom ends with the supercharger happily take 265bhp all day long, however they are only running circa 220ft/lb of torque.

The torque from a turbo producing the same kind of bhp may be too much, who knows... Dunno

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Posted 2nd Dec 2013 at 13:13

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aaron6

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Post #5

Can you get low torque maps like on the HDI?

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Posted 2nd Dec 2013 at 15:15

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stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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Post #6

aaron6 wrote:

Can you get low torque maps like on the HDI?

Possibly, but surely you'd want to build an engine that had a good amount of the torque which was available.

The other issue to think about when fitting a turbo as opposed to a supercharger is the oil temps. The temps will be higher using a turbo as a charger has it's own lubrication circuit. You would need a decent size oil cooler and the extra oil temp could easily lead to fatigue in the bottom end faster possibly leading to premature failure.

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Posted 2nd Dec 2013 at 15:29

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aaron6

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Post #7

The low torque map would work well enough and quell a lot of wheel spin but I love torque and wouldnt want to deliberately lose it for the sake of a low comp bottom end.

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Posted 2nd Dec 2013 at 18:56

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armzsc6

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Post #8

Just use a decomp plate if your going for not much more than 300bhp should be reliable enough like that I would think. But ultimately if I was building a turbo engine I'd go forged otherwise what's te point of a turbo on very little boost? A lump of not a lot of power and a loss of drivability and reliability doesn't seem worth bothering with for the money when a LBSC kit can be had for 2 and a bit K second hand that's proven all day long.

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Posted 2nd Dec 2013 at 19:07

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stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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Post #9

armzs16 wrote:

^^ This

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Posted 2nd Dec 2013 at 20:33

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JWP EFi

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Post #10

Iv'e always been tempted to use a decomp plate, i have spent hours reading through various forums, the ford zetec turbo boys have very good results with them and most of theirs are different to to what DP and the likes supply where they bond the plates to the block and then fit a single head gasket whereas DP's plates require a gasket either side. Another seemingly popular method amongst Cosworth YB owners is to machine out the head combustion chambers, Ferriday engineering quoted approx £180 to do this to a J4RS head, they reckon they can safely open up the chamber to ~48cc's to give a C/R of 9:1. Tbh i think i would prefer this method over 2 head gaskets and a plate. Mike Tanski of Ferriday talked to me at length about Squish area and whilst he does supply decomp plates he advised me to have the chambers enlarged instead.

Posted 2nd Dec 2013 at 21:35

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doof

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Post #11

someone do it and let us know how it goes, please. DTA management and pocketed chambers with the restrictor removed and a proper re-circulation system with the TB just before the manifold. £1500 if you're already on low boost for 300+ bhp and probably better torque and drivability?

Posted 4th Dec 2013 at 17:40

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rallyestyle

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Post #12

Im willing to try it but would need a few club donations Whistle

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Posted 5th Dec 2013 at 09:46

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stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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Post #13

rallyestyle wrote:

Im willing to try it but would need a few club donations Whistle

I would be willing to give it a go but it's a bit pointless seeing as the car is confined to the garage for the long haul. LOL

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Posted 5th Dec 2013 at 13:22

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rallyestyle

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Post #14

stan_306gti6 wrote:

rallyestyle wrote:

Im willing to try it but would need a few club donations Whistle

I would be willing to give it a go but it's a bit pointless seeing as the car is confined to the garage for the long haul. LOL

Yours is High Boost though Stan, bottom end is far from standard, for good reason Devil

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Posted 5th Dec 2013 at 13:27

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stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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Post #15

This is true, but I was generally talking about giving turbocharging a go as opposed to supercharging.

Still for the use I've had out of the package I'm extremely happy to stay with Rotrex. Yes

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"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
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Posted 5th Dec 2013 at 14:25

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rallyestyle

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Post #16

stan_306gti6 wrote:

This is true, but I was generally talking about giving turbocharging a go as opposed to supercharging.

Still for the use I've had out of the package I'm extremely happy to stay with Rotrex. Yes

I see! A cheap Turbo setup would be cool but im not sure it would end up as cheap as the standard LB Rotrex setup. We might find out one day but as these cars get older then less and less will be done to them.

I might just shift my attentions to making an interesting one of these Ninja

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Posted 5th Dec 2013 at 16:08

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stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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Post #17

I like the technology of the RCZ, but I really don't like the way they look.

Having said that though, I don't like the look of many modern cars these days.

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Posted 5th Dec 2013 at 17:16

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aaron6

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Post #18

Not a fan of new cars either. And after seeing an RCZ at pugfest have its gearbox s**t itself whilst being sunday driven up the hill, id rule any new pug out. LOL

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Posted 5th Dec 2013 at 18:28

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stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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Post #19

aaron6 wrote:

Not a fan of new cars either. And after seeing an RCZ at pugfest have its gearbox s**t itself whilst being sunday driven up the hill, id rule any new pug out. LOL

^^This...

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Posted 6th Dec 2013 at 08:09

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mattgti6phase2

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Post #20

I wouldn't say that's a common fault. They're a very good car and the R has 265BHP!!!!

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Posted 6th Dec 2013 at 08:42

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armzsc6

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Post #21

That may not be a common fault but the engines are s**te! Had loads of recalls on the same engine in the DS3 and others due to loads of timing chain failures, I've had 2 which have blown the water pumps to shreds out of nowhere, various sensor faults on the non turbo version in the 207.

I could go on.... And that's without trying to pub it to 265bhp out of a 1.6....

When ever we ring peugeot to order parts for one of those engines first thing they say is " oh that's got the s**tty BMW engine hasn't it...."

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Posted 6th Dec 2013 at 10:21

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eliotrw

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Post #22

The R has forged internal and is built by peugeot sport though.

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Posted 6th Dec 2013 at 11:45

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mattgti6phase2

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Post #23

Lol they would say that however it's more PSA than BMW. As for the faults that's just new cars for you they all have far too many sensors that fail.

I'm sure they'll redesign the timing chains if they haven't already.

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currently abusing type r's in a town near you � Wink

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midweek madness Tee hee

Posted 6th Dec 2013 at 16:53

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honestly3k

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Post #24

The RCZ-R has like eliotrw says forged internals, and a carefully designed exhaust manifold iirc.

Should hopefully be able to handle the power!

I quite like the RCZ-R, and im not a fan of modern cars either, for the most part

edit; the RCZ's 1.6 gets a bespoke new twin-scroll turbo, F1-spec aluminium pistons, toughened con rods and low-friction bearings

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Posted 6th Dec 2013 at 17:03

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mabgti

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Post #25

Ive been running 294bhp for years now.

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Posted 9th Dec 2013 at 23:41

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