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Author Subject: Cooling System Bleeding . . .
tom tom go

Tom Tom GONE!!

Location: Doncaster

Registered: 29 May 2008

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Post #1
Afternoon All, long time since i've been active on here, but I need some advice, simple as it may be however! I feel I may be about to make myself look like a right old moron . . . anyhow;

Dropped all the coolant and gave the system a flush, all back together again, filled up and wanting to bleed it. Already done my research on here as to different methods and such and opted for the "temp header tank" method. Got fluid from both other points (rad top and thermostat) bar the matrix point (valve cap). Tried and tried but just got coolant everywhere.

Attempted to bleed up using usual method --> let engine come up to temp, open points in order till fluid appears and seal off again. First attempt failed at the thermostat and I scolded my finger quite bad so gave up as I was in agony. Tried again today and couldn't get water from the rad, thermostat was fine, then the matrix point wouldn't spew anything either!! Confused. Huge air lock somewhere? Is it possible I've f**ked something up?

No heat in cabin either I noticed.

Btw, I attempted to use the overflow to blow through with the cap on but I could feel the air escaping, I think through the cap itself. I used a bleed pipe to blow through so the seal on the overflow was fine, not sure how this method can work, if someone would care to explain, please do?

Any help much appreciated.

________________________________________

Cherry RALLYE
Posted 24th Aug 2013 at 16:53
mattgti6phase2

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Location: inside my 6 abusing the tarmac!!

Registered: 16 Jul 2010

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Post #2
You need to start from the matrix point first as that's the highest point.

As soon as you start the car make sure the matrix bleed point is open and the the heating is on full. Once water appears move on to the stat and then the rad. Just keep an eye on the temp gauge though and holding the revs can also help.

________________________________________

Team Nile 6 Superman
Team: 40.2 MPG Smile
5 x a 306 owner!
currently abusing type r's in a town near you ™ Wink
I truely live for the 306 ®
Build date: 29th October 1997 Wednesday's car
midweek madness Tee hee
Posted 24th Aug 2013 at 18:10
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

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Post #3
I open all three, fill up, close as appropriate, that's before starting up, you will find that the rad will fill up first, then the thermostat housing, then the heater matrix.


I drill a 3mm hole in the top edge of the stat to aid bleeding as per peugeot sport build data.

you don't need to set the heating on hot, as there is no valve in the system like a fecking ford.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 24th Aug 2013 at 18:31
gti6girl

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Location: Dartford

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Post #4
mattgti6phase2 wrote:
You need to start from the matrix point first as that's the highest point.


This is not correct. You start at the lowest point and work your way up.

When I get to the matrix pipe I gently blow in to the rad with a finger over the overflow and put the cap back on the matrix hose as water starts coming out

Never had any problems to date
Posted 24th Aug 2013 at 20:10
coskev

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Post #5
Never understood how people struggle with thisDunno

I fill rad through bleed point and rad cap until rad is full,fire up engine,bleed thermostat bleed point then rad,then remove matrix bleed point and hold the revs steady at a fast idle speed and replace the cap while coolant is flowing freelyThumbs up
Then check the heat coming out of heater in car,if ok just leave the car idling with rad cap off for a while,if no heat in car re-bleed matrix bleed pointSmile

________________________________________

Red GTB1756 powered Fabia VRS daily driver,LBSC Gti6 eater........

Mac1 ZR R1 kit car build in progress.
Posted 24th Aug 2013 at 21:29
tom tom go

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Post #6
Cheers guy's. To be honest Coskev I can't believe I'm struggling with it as I've done it a couple of times before but this was a few years ago now. Just the cold blowers that did me along with lack of fluid from the matrix!

The first attempt I got fluid from both the rad and thermostat but then stopped as said in OP. Today it wouldn't come through the rad even when @ 90 ?! I got fluid out the matrix a second after giving the engine a wee rev, but was only a spit, I wasn't aware that you should need to rev the engine to allow the matrix to bleed up correctly, if so is it just a case of holding it until a constant stream appears as expected?

gti6girl - This may seem an obvious question, however can I assume you just use your hand for a make-shift seal around the opening then the"blow" is to increase pressure and force the fluids through?

________________________________________

Cherry RALLYE
Posted 24th Aug 2013 at 21:57
ryangti6

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Location: Pontypool

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Post #7
I've been told that you shouldn't rev whilst bleeding as it can push air passed the bleed point.

If you do what welshpug has said with your temp expansion aslong as the water is higher than the bleed point it will work. If it doesn't something isn't right imo.

________________________________________

Ryan
Posted 24th Aug 2013 at 21:58
coskev

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Location: Oswestry

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Post #8
I've just found revving it slightly makes it easyThumbs up

You can open the matrix bleed point with the engine at idle and nothing comes out at all,I've left it at idle for a while with it open and never seen any coolant come outDunno
But give it some slight revs and you get a nice flow of coolant out of it aswell as air,replace the cap midflow of the coolant coming out once its a steady streamThumbs up

________________________________________

Red GTB1756 powered Fabia VRS daily driver,LBSC Gti6 eater........

Mac1 ZR R1 kit car build in progress.
Posted 24th Aug 2013 at 22:38
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

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Post #9
coskev wrote:
I've just found revving it slightly makes it easyThumbs up

You can open the matrix bleed point with the engine at idle and nothing comes out at all,I've left it at idle for a while with it open and never seen any coolant come outDunno
But give it some slight revs and you get a nice flow of coolant out of it aswell as air,replace the cap midflow of the coolant coming out once its a steady streamThumbs up


I have always done it this way as well with no issues. Yes

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 24th Aug 2013 at 23:06
mattgti6phase2

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Location: inside my 6 abusing the tarmac!!

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Post #10
gti6girl wrote:
mattgti6phase2 wrote:
You need to start from the matrix point first as that's the highest point.


This is not correct.


Then we agree to disagree as I've bled the system using this method more times than i care to remember with no issues what so ever Thumbs up

________________________________________

Team Nile 6 Superman
Team: 40.2 MPG Smile
5 x a 306 owner!
currently abusing type r's in a town near you ™ Wink
I truely live for the 306 ®
Build date: 29th October 1997 Wednesday's car
midweek madness Tee hee
Posted 25th Aug 2013 at 00:02
tom tom go

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Registered: 29 May 2008

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Post #11
Interesting discovery then. Will try this again later thanks.

Can anyone confirm roughly what temp the stat opens please, as I've had nothing flowing at about 85.

________________________________________

Cherry RALLYE
Posted 25th Aug 2013 at 15:05
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

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Post #12
83 degrees.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 25th Aug 2013 at 15:05
mattgti6phase2

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Post #13
Welshpug is there a different stat for the 6 that will bring the cooling fans in at say 90oC as apposed to 97oC?

________________________________________

Team Nile 6 Superman
Team: 40.2 MPG Smile
5 x a 306 owner!
currently abusing type r's in a town near you ™ Wink
I truely live for the 306 ®
Build date: 29th October 1997 Wednesday's car
midweek madness Tee hee
Posted 25th Aug 2013 at 22:21
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

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Post #14
Just use your AC button Matt, I noticed you'd performed the bridging mod on the switch when you was round. Yes

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 25th Aug 2013 at 22:56
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,838

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Post #15
mattgti6phase2 wrote:
Welshpug is there a different stat for the 6 that will bring the cooling fans in at say 90oC as apposed to 97oC?


thermostat does not control the fans, the fan thermoswitch (non ac setup) or the brown bitron sensor and the bitron control box (ac setup) sorts all that.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 25th Aug 2013 at 23:01
mattgti6phase2

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Post #16
I don't have cooling issues was just curious is all. I've just always thought that 97oC was pretty hot. Why is it 97 and not 90 like most other cars?

If a lower temp thermostat was put in it would just open earlier but the fans would still come in at 97 then?

________________________________________

Team Nile 6 Superman
Team: 40.2 MPG Smile
5 x a 306 owner!
currently abusing type r's in a town near you ™ Wink
I truely live for the 306 ®
Build date: 29th October 1997 Wednesday's car
midweek madness Tee hee
Posted 26th Aug 2013 at 00:04
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,838

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Post #17
Yup.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 26th Aug 2013 at 00:49
tom tom go

Tom Tom GONE!!

Location: Doncaster

Registered: 29 May 2008

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Post #18
Well after a third attempt I believe it's done. Though found I had to rev then engine slightly to get flow on both the rad and matrix, the stat was fine, which I can't ever remember being required before.

After a 20 mile mixed drive all appears OK ( touch wood). Will keep an eye on it however over the next few days.

Can't believe I've had such trouble with this, cheers for the help chaps.

Matt, I've also always wondered why the fans kick in so late, the cooling system is already relatively stretched and/or inadequate in these cars IMO, they quickly gain degrees when sat for a short period.

________________________________________

Cherry RALLYE
Posted 26th Aug 2013 at 01:01
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,838

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Post #19
I've never found them to be an issue, the fans keep them cool enough when they need to, never found the fan to come on that quickly with my engine at all

(same rad, single 150w fan not a 250w, single fan cowling not a twin fan like the rallye with one missing, same engine)


Thermostat opens at 83 degrees, so it shouldn't be running any hotter than that until you sit stationary.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 26th Aug 2013 at 01:05
tom tom go

Tom Tom GONE!!

Location: Doncaster

Registered: 29 May 2008

Posts: 1,926

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Post #20
Hmm, interesting. I've always thought it heats up quickly, during this time of year I would say around 5mins of standing/crawling traffic and the fans kick-in, though it has always been this way under my ownership (5yrs).

The GF's 307 can sit for ages without the heat barely rising, similar in my brothers Mk7 astra, mums E46 328 etc.

________________________________________

Cherry RALLYE
Posted 26th Aug 2013 at 01:10
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,838

Status: Offline

Post #21
when did it last have a rad, water pump, thermostat?

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 26th Aug 2013 at 01:16
tom tom go

Tom Tom GONE!!

Location: Doncaster

Registered: 29 May 2008

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Post #22
I've got extensive history for her and not seen a receipt for a rad or stat replacent. Waterpump was done 15k ago.

Excuse my ignorance but I would of gone with "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" with components like those, no?

________________________________________

Cherry RALLYE
Posted 26th Aug 2013 at 01:20
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

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Post #23
Don't forget the 306 has a 'live' gauge whereas most cars don't.

With this type of gauge, you see every single temp change (which I like) but with other cars the gauge will just sit at normal for example and despite the temp rising and falling all the time, unless it rises way too much due to an issue, the gauge will not show movement.

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 26th Aug 2013 at 08:05
coskev

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Location: Oswestry

Registered: 01 Nov 2009

Posts: 3,132

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Post #24
The rad could be breaking down/blocked partially internally that could be causing your bleeding and heat issuesYes

Never had to rev mine to get rad point to bleedNo

They have got a twin speed fan set up,I've just replaced the switch in my rad due to the low speed not kicking in,since doing this it has not used the fan at full speedWink

What temp is showing on your gauge when fan kicks in?Does the temp drop once fan is on and fan go off?Thumbs up

________________________________________

Red GTB1756 powered Fabia VRS daily driver,LBSC Gti6 eater........

Mac1 ZR R1 kit car build in progress.
Posted 26th Aug 2013 at 10:45
tom tom go

Tom Tom GONE!!

Location: Doncaster

Registered: 29 May 2008

Posts: 1,926

Status: Offline

Post #25
Hmm, interesting. I've always thought it heats up quickly, during this time of year I would say around 5mins of standing/crawling traffic and the fans kick-in, though it has always been this way under my ownership (5yrs).

The GF's 307 can sit for ages without the heat barely rising, similar in my brothers Mk7 astra, mums E46 328 etc.

________________________________________

Cherry RALLYE
Posted 30th Aug 2013 at 17:53

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