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Author Subject: Idle still not right
lewisdmz

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Location: plymouth

Registered: 25 Jul 2009

Posts: 504

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Post #1
My idle wasn't quite right and every 4 months or so it would randomly stall when I dipped the clutch just to remind me in case I forgot.

It didn't really bother me but I thought I would replace the ICV with a new Magneti Marelli one from ECP anyway, and what do you know, the revs still take about 3 'cycles' to settle sometimes when coming up to a junction. I.e. dip the clutch, revs drop, revs rise, revs drop, revs rise, then drop and settle.

I've also replaced the TPS with a new Bosch one and changed the throttle body gasket.

MAP sensor has been checked with a multimeter and seems to be operating correctly.

Running a standard airbox and snorkel.

Has anyone had problems with the throttle cable sticking or anything like that? Sometimes when I'm parking it sounds like I have no throttle control because the revs rise up all over the place when the clutch is dipped.
Posted 30th Jul 2013 at 22:42
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jimmyhackers

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Location: birmingham

Registered: 14 Jun 2011

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Post #2
make sure your throttle body is closing fully, check by hand in the enginer bay with it running.

if you can close it a little and your idle settles, you may just have your throttle cable to tight.

its pretty simple to grease it up, just disconect it point it upwards and drip some oil down it. might help if you have a mate pressing the pedal to work the oil all the way down.

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Posted 31st Jul 2013 at 00:46
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stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

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Post #3
Try unplugging the PAS sensor, this will probably cure it. Yes

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"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 31st Jul 2013 at 07:23
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swiftyboi006

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Location: Maidenhead

Registered: 12 Apr 2010

Posts: 2,110

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Post #4
^yep

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Posted 31st Jul 2013 at 07:54
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walker_texasranger

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Location: Sunny Retford

Registered: 26 Jan 2008

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Post #5
stan_306gti6 wrote:
Try unplugging the PAS sensor, this will probably cure it. Yes


Is this the Blue plug just behind your Rad?

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Posted 31st Jul 2013 at 08:22
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stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

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Post #6
walker_texasranger wrote:
stan_306gti6 wrote:
Try unplugging the PAS sensor, this will probably cure it. Yes


Is this the Blue plug just behind your Rad?


It sure is. Yes

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 31st Jul 2013 at 09:25
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walker_texasranger

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Post #7
I'm going to try this, cures hunting too so I've read...

________________________________________

Almost standard 1999 Bianca Rallye
Hilux InvincibleX daily

306 No.13 Doh

Carp and specialist Anglers Click here
Posted 31st Jul 2013 at 09:29
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stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

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Post #8
Yes, the reason is because the sensor is sensing when there is higher pressures in the PAS lines and therefore ups the revs to compensate for the pump struggling at low speeds when parking etc.

The reality is, when the sensors play up they cause all sorts of idling/hunting/revving issues.

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 31st Jul 2013 at 09:34
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lewisdmz

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Location: plymouth

Registered: 25 Jul 2009

Posts: 504

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Post #9
jimmyhackers wrote:
make sure your throttle body is closing fully, check by hand in the enginer bay with it running.

if you can close it a little and your idle settles, you may just have your throttle cable to tight.

its pretty simple to grease it up, just disconect it point it upwards and drip some oil down it. might help if you have a mate pressing the pedal to work the oil all the way down.


Thanks will give it a check.
Posted 31st Jul 2013 at 21:23
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lewisdmz

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Location: plymouth

Registered: 25 Jul 2009

Posts: 504

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Post #10
stan_306gti6 wrote:
Try unplugging the PAS sensor, this will probably cure it. Yes


Forgot to mention i've tried that, didn't seem to make any difference, although I guess that could also mean it's broken?
Posted 31st Jul 2013 at 21:24
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stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

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Post #11
No, if unplugging it didn't make a difference that means it's working correctly. Yes

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"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 31st Jul 2013 at 22:31
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24seven

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Location: Derby

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Post #12
stan_306gti6 wrote:
No, if unplugging it didn't make a difference that means it's working correctly. Yes


Dunno Are you sure about that? If it's broken and isn't working at all, then unplugging it will make no difference. When a light bulb breaks do you unplug the bulb and flip the switch to see if the broken bulb is the problem?

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Posted 1st Aug 2013 at 17:09
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stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

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Post #13
What I meant was if you unplug it and the fault is still present then it's not the issue. Roll eyes

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"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 1st Aug 2013 at 18:25
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24seven

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Post #14
Obviously that's what you meant, but that's my point. Perhaps I was too sarcastic. Keeping it simple, your temperature gauge stops working, but you know the coolant is getting hot (obviously) and there are no outward signs of overheating. Unplugging the sensor that ought to be sending the signal to the gauge that isn't working isn't going to tell you if the sensor is working or not.

If his PAS sensor has failed and isn't sending a signal, unplugging it isn't suddenly going to mean a signal will be sent that fixes the problem - the problem will remain. If unplugging it doesn't make a difference at all, then why is it even fitted in the first place?

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Posted 1st Aug 2013 at 19:25
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stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

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Post #15
24seven wrote:
If his PAS sensor has failed and isn't sending a signal, unplugging it isn't suddenly going to mean a signal will be sent that fixes the problem - the problem will remain.


Not exactly.

If the PAS sensor was giving problems it would be sending random false information to the ECU, which in turn would cause the ECU to raise and lower the idle speed. However, if the sensor is unplugged then the ECU will run on standard settings and not use information from the PAS sensor as it can no longer see it.

Therefore, if you unplug the sensor and the issue still remains then you know the sensor is ok as otherwise the problem would immediately disappear if that was the cause.

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 1st Aug 2013 at 19:28
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24seven

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Post #16
Back on topic, have you checked for any air leaks in other places, such as the inlet manifold gasket or around the resonator under the inlet itself? You say you've tested the MAP sensor, how did you test it? A static test won't necessarily mean much, if you're near any other members it would be worth asking if you can try a known working sensor as it's so easy to whip them off.

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Ph1 306 GTi 6 | RX8 231 S1 | YBR 125 Cafe Racer | MT-03 660
Posted 1st Aug 2013 at 19:29
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24seven

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Post #17
stan_306gti6 wrote:
24seven wrote:
If his PAS sensor has failed and isn't sending a signal, unplugging it isn't suddenly going to mean a signal will be sent that fixes the problem - the problem will remain.


Not exactly.

If the PAS sensor was giving problems it would be sending random false information to the ECU, which in turn would cause the ECU to raise and lower the idle speed. However, if the sensor is unplugged then the ECU will run on standard settings and not use information from the PAS sensor as it can no longer see it.

Therefore, if you unplug the sensor and the issue still remains then you know the sensor is ok as otherwise the problem would immediately disappear if that was the cause.


If it were impossible for sensors to completely 100% fail then I'd agree with you, but like the light bulb earlier, they can flicker and go dim without failing completely, or they can just pop and fail to work at all. Unplugging the PAS sensor won't categorically prove or disprove a damn thing!

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Posted 1st Aug 2013 at 19:32
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jimmyhackers

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Post #18
24 seven i dont think its quite right to cross reference fault finding in a single fillament bulb or a resitor with a multpin sensor. inline devices like filament bulbs and resistors 99% either work or dont, current controlling and signal generate devices can "flicker" so to speak.

actual flicker from most bulbs is caused do to poor curent stability, or in flurescent or other lights that require a transformer (current controlling device) so flicker is generally not down to the bulb but controll circuitry elsewhere.

stans method of unplugging the sensor will proove something. wether the sensor is causing the problem or not.

the process of elimination is vital to fault finding

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the world is changed by people in sheds
Posted 2nd Aug 2013 at 00:48
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24seven

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Post #19
jimmyhackers wrote:
24 seven i dont think its quite right to cross reference fault finding in a single fillament bulb or a resitor with a multpin sensor. inline devices like filament bulbs and resistors 99% either work or dont, current controlling and signal generate devices can "flicker" so to speak.

actual flicker from most bulbs is caused do to poor curent stability, or in flurescent or other lights that require a transformer (current controlling device) so flicker is generally not down to the bulb but controll circuitry elsewhere.

stans method of unplugging the sensor will proove something. wether the sensor is causing the problem or not.

the process of elimination is vital to fault finding


It's called an analogy... Go back and read what i've written. Of course sensors can flicker intermittently, i'm not disputing that. You're suggesting they can't fail completely, which is wrong - they can. If his PAS sensor has failed completely and he unplugs it to check, there will be no change and so by your advice he will believe it's fine. I can't explain it any clearer than that!!

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Ph1 306 GTi 6 | RX8 231 S1 | YBR 125 Cafe Racer | MT-03 660
Posted 2nd Aug 2013 at 16:18
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jimmyhackers

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Registered: 14 Jun 2011

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Post #20
sorry if i come across as annoying, people often tend to confuse smug with corrrect Smile

if your PAS sensor has failed completely if wouldnt cause an idle fault. by failing completely would mean no conductivity whatsoever. if this is the case then yes, when the PAS sensor has failed completely you wouldnt notice a difference to the idle. but this would still mean something else is causing the problem. which is usefull info

this result form the test could also fool you into a false sense that your pas sensor is fully working, so i half see where your coming from.

but i doubt this would happen as its a logic gate of sorts. When dodgey (not completely failed) it would have an incorrect conductivity instead of none.

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the world is changed by people in sheds
Posted 2nd Aug 2013 at 19:43
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