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Author Subject: Intercooler options on LBSC cars
eliotrw

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Post #1
Quite a simple one.
Why do most LBSC conversions seem to opt for the high boost sized cooler?

Now the answer might be that its just better simple as, and makes the change to high boost (slightly) easier.
But ive seen a few comments about people saying about the stalling issue being partly due to the bigger IC?

Basically just looking for experiences etc on the above.
I assume there must be a reason why rich specs a smaller one as the cost difference is negligable against the total conversion cost?

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Posted 4th Nov 2012 at 23:13
stu

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Post #2
As you say, most people go for the bigger one to begin with to save having to change it later on if/when they go HB.

If you only intend to go LB, then I would go with the smaller IC as it seems to help with the stalling issue from what I've read. As there is a smaller volume of air for the ICV to deal with compared to the bigger IC, it's able to cope slightly better.
Posted 4th Nov 2012 at 23:21
eliotrw

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Post #3
Oh ok, so you wouldnt think theres any hit to power output and cooling with the smaller ic / low boost?

If it makes a difference, the car will be custom mapped anyway

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Posted 4th Nov 2012 at 23:24
stu

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Post #4
If it's being custom mapped, then there shouldn't be anything to worry about.

As long as the person doing the mapping is any good, they should be able to eliminate any stalling issues and achieve an adequate power output.
Posted 4th Nov 2012 at 23:51
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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Post #5
The larger intercooler and associated pipework is rumoured to contribute to stalling issues as the ICV has a much larger 'plenum' surface area to control than what it was designed for. However, as Stu says, if the car is being custom mapped (especially by someone like Wayne) then it should be possible for it to be setup and run perfectly. Yes

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Posted 5th Nov 2012 at 00:19
fatlapit

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Post #6
What cooler is the low blow using??

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Posted 5th Nov 2012 at 00:22
tvrfan007

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Post #7
My mates Xsara had a large intercooler on the low boost setup, and had absolutely no stalling issues to speak of. It would dip under the normal idle revs occasionally but not stall.

I suspect that part of the issue is the fact most people plump for a lightweight flywheel at some point - the loss of inertia from the flywheel gives the engine a bit of a challenge in catching the dropping revs during a clutch depression.

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Posted 5th Nov 2012 at 05:08
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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Post #8
Was your friend's ECU custom mapped though Simon?

Wayne did manage to get round the issue in the end and it has worked for the majority of cars.

Basically what he did was to send pulses to the injectors when they dropped down to 1100rpm. That way, if you was coming down the revs from 3000rpm for example, and suddenly put the clutch in, the revs would try and drop to about 600rpm and stall, but because fuel was injected at 1100rpm, it would save the stall and keep the idle around 850rpm.

Luckily, I don't suffer from this issue myself as I don't use an ICV on my setup and I have an aftermarket ECU controlling everything anyway.

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Posted 5th Nov 2012 at 07:02
davewagon

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Post #9
stan_306gti6 wrote:

Luckily, I don't suffer from this issue myself now as I sold it a while back and cant bring myseld to admit it to everyone.


Zing !

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Posted 5th Nov 2012 at 07:21
tvrfan007

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Post #10
No it just runs the standard map that the low boost cars run - it's the setup which has been installed now in my Rallye as the other car was stripped.

I'm familiar with the modifications to the early maps to cure the stalling, mine will probably be running the updated variant. The issue on any car, early or late map will still be exacerbated by the lightening of the fly. Smile

I used to get this on my Rover, where 1 of of maybe 50 clutch in stops, the engine would fail to catch the revs and result in a stall. This only occurred after I installed a lightweight flywheel, a TTV Racing one just like Rich's, only in this case it was in the region of 1/3 of the weight of the original (3.5 vs 9) whereas I understand the GTI one is circa 6-7 to start with. Revving of the engine was massively different to standard. Smile

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Posted 5th Nov 2012 at 07:25
davewagon

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Post #11
You are probably onto something there

With my lightened flywheel, every now and then the car would stall at a junction after dumping the clutch, revs would drop and the icv wouldn't catch it in time.

However when I bought a new (more powerful battery) the problem has stopped, the car still drops revs but the icv has caught it everytime. More power to icv maybe, and electrics in general???

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Posted 5th Nov 2012 at 07:30
eliotrw

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Post #12
Ok so riddle me this then
Two options
Low boost intercooler + map + lightened fly
High boost intercooler + map + lightened fly
Is one better than the other? both are mapped...

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Posted 6th Nov 2012 at 20:49
welshpug!

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Post #13
high boost = faster

duuuuh Huh?

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Posted 6th Nov 2012 at 20:57
eliotrw

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Post #14
intercooler only :p

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Posted 6th Nov 2012 at 21:15
swiftyboi006

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Post #15
Low boost cooler surely? Unless you have the intention of going high boost

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Posted 6th Nov 2012 at 22:30
eliotrw

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Post #16
Thats my question.
As most low boost setups seem to have a high boost cooler, is there an advantage OTHER than easier (hardly) upgrade to high boost.
I.E in a purely low boost car does the high boost sized intercooler give any advantage.

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Posted 6th Nov 2012 at 22:45
JWP EFi

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Post #17
just my 2p's worth, but if its only ever going to be low blow, then i would have thought the smaller

cooler would be a better choice, a large core intercooler will take slightly longer to pressurize, hence

affecting throttle response and low to mid rpm driveability
Posted 6th Nov 2012 at 22:57
eliotrw

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Post #18
Thats what i thought :/ i know thats how it works in turbo land too, in the sense that the larger the intercooler the more lag you have etc.
My main worry is whether theres an effect to the power figure.

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Posted 6th Nov 2012 at 23:02
JWP EFi

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Post #19
youve probs already asked but what does mr walker have to say?

speaking from a previous experience (albeit a crap 8v turbo conversion), i originally had a standard
sierra

cosworth intercooler, i then shoehorned an iveco lorry 'cooler on it, there definately was a noticable

loss in response for virtually no gain
Posted 6th Nov 2012 at 23:10
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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Post #20
jsa666 wrote:
just my 2p's worth, but if its only ever going to be low blow, then i would have thought the smaller

cooler would be a better choice, a large core intercooler will take slightly longer to pressurize, hence

affecting throttle response and low to mid rpm driveability


Exactly this. Yes

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Posted 7th Nov 2012 at 07:40

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