displaying posts 1 to 13 of 13

Author Subject: hybrid help
Niall

Seasoned Pro

Location: Epsom

Registered: 06 Jun 2012

Posts: 1,941

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Post #1
I know im going to get some stick for this from you lot but bear with me on it....

Basically im looking into building a new engine. 1.8XU bottom end with a gti head. Reason being, 1.8 engine is short stroke and revs very very nicely. problem letting the entire 1.8 down is the head. Its stupidly restricted, has crap cams and small valves. Looking to start building the engine next month with the intention of finishing it off with mapping this time next year (sort of a background project).
Biggest problem ive come across is the 1.8 bore is 83mm and the gti bore is 86mm meaning there will be a lip at the top of the bore of 1.5mm either side (so would look a bit like a mushroom in a cross section). Im not worried about valve clearance as i know its not a issue. The thing im not so sure about is will this lip in the combustion chamber be a problem?
Any views on this, im happy to listen to. This is going to be a big learning curve for me so any advice/criticism welcome!
Posted 3rd Nov 2012 at 18:01
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,838

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Post #2
It does not have small valves, and there wont be a lip at the top as the chamber is not that large.

XU7 and 10J4R have larger inlet valves than the RS head, its purely the inlet ports that hold it back, and the mild cams and manifolds, sort the head and cams you'll be fine.

You will need to change the valvetrain, the stock valves wont cope with much more than standard, though I do believe the RS stem seals lower spring seat double springs and top spring cap will fit just fine.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 3rd Nov 2012 at 18:07
Niall

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Location: Epsom

Registered: 06 Jun 2012

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Post #3
i thought the gti engine was a 86mm bore? Mind you, i did get that info from the haynes book of lies so wouldnt surprise me if its wrong!

The gti valves are bigger than the 1.8 ones. Ive got both heads sitting in my shed at the moment so can get pics. As youve said, the 1.8 inlet ports are very restricted. I did port my old 1.8 head and it made a nice difference but never got as far as cams.
you sure the gti valves wont cope with more than standard? im sure ive read several people that have built quite high power gti engines still with the standard valvetrain!
Posted 3rd Nov 2012 at 18:15
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,838

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Post #4
derp, missed you said you were using the RS head LOL if anything that'll flow too much.

yes the RS lump is 86mm bore, that's the block not the head.

valve sizes are the same as the old Mi16 on the XU7 and 10J4R

XU7 info - http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=84170

XU10J4R vs RS http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=87635

smaller valve on the RS inlet, larger on exhaust.

Sandy brown made 230+ with one of these using std valve sizes and XU7 head casting.

valve clearance is an issue same as the XU10J4RS engine, minimal valve cutouts.

If you haven't got a suitable head already, you can use the 135 J4R head as that flows enough but stick the RS springs etc in it.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 3rd Nov 2012 at 18:36
Niall

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Location: Epsom

Registered: 06 Jun 2012

Posts: 1,941

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Post #5
Thanks for that. Both the RS and j4r engines have a 86mm bore correct? If so, surely the cutout (sorry not a technical term...talking about the dome in the head) will also be 86mm diameter meaning when bolting it to a jp4 bottom, there will be a 3mm difference?
Tbh it's been so bloody long since I've looked at the head, I've forgotten what iT looks like in detail.
Cheers Smile
Posted 3rd Nov 2012 at 18:42
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

Status: Offline

Post #6
I'm currently running over 450bhp on the standard valve train and cams on the RS head, although that is with forced induction. Yes

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 3rd Nov 2012 at 18:43
Niall

Seasoned Pro

Location: Epsom

Registered: 06 Jun 2012

Posts: 1,941

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Post #7
stan_306gti6 wrote:
I'm currently running over 450bhp on the standard valve train and cams on the RS head, although that is with forced induction. Yes


What do you mean running? Your car never runs does it! Laugh my ass off:

Good to know. Tbh I have also been looking into turboing it. Just deciding if I want to spend the extra money.
The whole point of this engine is to try something different. Most 306 owners just buy a gti lump and bang a supercharger on the front!
Posted 3rd Nov 2012 at 18:48
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

Status: Offline

Post #8
Bloody cheek! Laugh my ass off

It would run if I started it, I just haven't turned the key for nearly 14 months. LOL

I know what you mean about trying something different, although there is a whole world of difference between "banging a supercharger on the front" and the conversion that I have carried out. Yes

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 3rd Nov 2012 at 18:53
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,838

Status: Offline

Post #9
Niall wrote:
Thanks for that. Both the RS and j4r engines have a 86mm bore correct? If so, surely the cutout (sorry not a technical term...talking about the dome in the head) will also be 86mm diameter meaning when bolting it to a jp4 bottom, there will be a 3mm difference?


no, 86mm purely refers to the bore of the block, I just measured both XU7 and XU10 cylinder heads and the chambers are both 82mm across.

Stan's post is totally irrelevant as he's running boost (or would if he ever actually drove it, I don't believe it even exists tbh)

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 3rd Nov 2012 at 18:56
Niall

Seasoned Pro

Location: Epsom

Registered: 06 Jun 2012

Posts: 1,941

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Post #10
stan_306gti6 wrote:
Bloody cheek! Laugh my ass off

It would run if I started it, I just haven't turned the key for nearly 14 months. LOL

I know what you mean about trying something different, although there is a whole world of difference between "banging a supercharger on the front" and the conversion that I have carried out. Yes


Yeah I know it's not that simple! Don't worry haha
Posted 3rd Nov 2012 at 19:02
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

Status: Offline

Post #11
welshpug! wrote:
Stan's post is totally irrelevant as he's running boost (or would if he ever actually drove it, I don't believe it even exists tbh)


Laugh my ass off

It is getting ready to come back out mate, it'll be at FCS and Pugfest next year. Thumbs up

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 3rd Nov 2012 at 19:02
Niall

Seasoned Pro

Location: Epsom

Registered: 06 Jun 2012

Posts: 1,941

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Post #12
welshpug! wrote:
Niall wrote:
Thanks for that. Both the RS and j4r engines have a 86mm bore correct? If so, surely the cutout (sorry not a technical term...talking about the dome in the head) will also be 86mm diameter meaning when bolting it to a jp4 bottom, there will be a 3mm difference?


no, 86mm purely refers to the bore of the block, I just measured both XU7 and XU10 cylinder heads and the chambers are both 82mm across.

Stan's post is totally irrelevant as he's running boost (or would if he ever actually drove it, I don't believe it even exists tbh)


Ah ok great that makes life a bit easier then!
I would love to boost it tbh. Never driven a supercharged car but I just love how a short stroke turbo car drives (still miss my old saab aero!)

Welsh pug, with regards to you saying it might flow a bit too much with the RS head, what is the difference between the RS and xsi head other than the cams? I'm assuming the RS has bigger inlet valves?
Posted 3rd Nov 2012 at 19:05
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,838

Status: Offline

Post #13
Don't assume anything Razz read the links Smile

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 3rd Nov 2012 at 19:19

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