High boost supercharged 6 engine with petert regrinds. - Engines Forum

displaying posts 1 to 25 of 25

Author

Subject: High boost supercharged 6 engine with petert regrinds.

paul_13

Senior User

Location: Reading

Registered: 10 Dec 2008

Posts: 693

Status: Offline

Post #1

I have a high boost engine which will have 87mm wossner pistons etc...
Now has anyone had experiences with running different cams on a supercharged engine?

Will be going for some petert regrinds. Stage 2 probably but worried about blow back on the overlap.

Any ideas?

________________________________________

205 GTI6- Rebuilt engine, lightened flywheel, lightened pulley, 307 hdi brakes, Koni struts on gravel spec springs, 22mm TB's, 24mm ARB, Roll cage, Citreon ZX rear dampers, SL434's, Xsara box, Quickrack, Pipercross enclosed induction kit. Smile

Private work, not a prob Smile

Posted 10th May 2012 at 19:32

Profile

pugheaven

Seasoned Pro

Location: Fareham

Registered: 17 Dec 2006

Posts: 4,602

Status: Offline

Post #2

I have asked rich this before as I have another engine with a longmans head and piper 270h cams that I was thinking of using for my high boost engine, from what I remember he said it was pointless or something along those lines

Posted 10th May 2012 at 19:38

Profile

eliotrw

Seasoned Pro

Location: Southwark

Registered: 18 Jul 2010

Posts: 4,864

Status: Offline

Post #3

something to do with boost not having enough space to flow through properly or something?I cant remember either..

________________________________________

Ex- Phase 3 China GTi-6 T-Reg

Posted 10th May 2012 at 19:53

Profile

matty_rallye

Senior User

Location: Devizes

Registered: 28 Oct 2005

Posts: 966

Status: Offline

Post #4

I was always under the impression that the cams wouldnt restrict a HB engine. Stan runs another 50 bhp over a HB on the standard ones i think.

________________________________________

2.1 16v 306 Rallye.

Posted 10th May 2012 at 19:54

Profile

welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,838

Status: Offline

Post #5

Doesnt Garry have a cam in his 205?

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 10th May 2012 at 19:55

Profile

eliotrw

Seasoned Pro

Location: Southwark

Registered: 18 Jul 2010

Posts: 4,864

Status: Offline

Post #6

Is that the gentry one?
If so yeah I think so.

________________________________________

Ex- Phase 3 China GTi-6 T-Reg

Posted 10th May 2012 at 20:01

Profile

simonjames

Seasoned Pro

Location: Whitland S.Wales

Registered: 23 Nov 2004

Posts: 6,219

Status: Offline

Post #7

I had PT82s to go in mine but rich advised me that if anything i would probably have less power after fitting than if id just left standard cams in so i sold them on, but i'm sure iirc CAT cams do a pair of XU10J4RS cams that are designed for boosted engines but how good/bad they are on our charged engines i dont know

________________________________________

All South Wales Members Click Here
Team Supercharged Black RALLYE � (Click Here for Build Project)
MY EBAY ITEMS

07943066306

Posted 10th May 2012 at 20:06

Profile

daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

Location: Southampton

Registered: 01 Oct 2007

Posts: 8,648

Status: Offline

Post #8

The accepted wisdom is, don't do it.

________________________________________

R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.

Some of my services: (See my for sale threads)
Engine mount/chassis repair
Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION
Harness bars

Posted 10th May 2012 at 20:12

Profile

paul_13

Senior User

Location: Reading

Registered: 10 Dec 2008

Posts: 693

Status: Offline

Post #9

Ok, any reason why? Surely it will help to an extent. I'd like some solid proof really, not assumptions/guesses

Has Richw tried a supercharged engine on cams?

________________________________________

Private work, not a prob Smile

Posted 10th May 2012 at 20:18

Profile

daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

Location: Southampton

Registered: 01 Oct 2007

Posts: 8,648

Status: Offline

Post #10

The reason it doesnt work is that high lift, long overlap cams actually waste the boost. Rich has been through this and talks from experience. If you want better results, you need to consult your cam manufacturer and advise them that you are carrying out a forced induction build and let them spec the cams accordingly.

________________________________________

Posted 10th May 2012 at 20:26

Profile

paul_13

Senior User

Location: Reading

Registered: 10 Dec 2008

Posts: 693

Status: Offline

Post #11

Spot on

________________________________________

Private work, not a prob Smile

Posted 10th May 2012 at 20:41

Profile

gman

Seasoned Pro

Location: Didcot

Registered: 25 Oct 2007

Posts: 1,471

Status: Offline

Post #12

What the hell are you up to Paul. A high boost in your 205!! Beast!

I hope its not going to take up all your time - Miles is sending up the spare parts for the flywheel job, so hope you're still free for that. Need to get my billies on too!

________________________________________

1992 Onyx Black 205 GTI-6
2005 Honda S2000 (Sold)
2002 Audi S3 (Sold)
2005 Clio 182 Trophy (sold)

Posted 10th May 2012 at 22:44

Profile

stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

Status: Offline

Post #13

matty_rallye wrote:

Stan runs another 50 bhp over a HB on the standard ones i think.

This is correct. Yes

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love

Posted 11th May 2012 at 01:17

Profile

rich_w

Seasoned Pro

Location: Havant, Hampshire

Registered: 29 Jul 2004

Posts: 5,412

Status: Offline

Post #14

I have experimented with cams on the high-boost S/C setup.

It really depends what your aspirations are in terms of power, and where you want it.

They can give you a similar percentage gain as they would on a N/A engine. The issue is, the inherant nature of a centrifugal supercharger (like Rotrex) is to move the peak power / torque up the power band when compared to the same engine in N/A form.

This is becuase the impellor speed in the compressor increases with crankshaft speed - so boost increases as RPM does, so peak power is normally very close the the red-line.

Adding some higher lift and / or longer duration cams will move the powerband up the rev range further, which isn't always desirable.

I used a Cat Cams N/A grind on mine, and it seemed to respond very well to more overlap, due to the cylinder purging.

Smile

________________________________________

Contact Details:

rich@lynxpowerengineering.co.uk
07732 822546

Posted 11th May 2012 at 20:06

Profile

swiftyboi006

Seasoned Pro

Location: Maidenhead

Registered: 12 Apr 2010

Posts: 2,110

Status: Offline

Post #15

Say no more

________________________________________

cherry p1.....SOLD (regreting this)
blaze p2.....why did i buy this SOLD
Black p3 Love

Posted 11th May 2012 at 20:36

Profile

stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

Status: Offline

Post #16

Really, as Rich says it's not necessary...

If I can get 454bhp and 320ft/lbs out of standard cams, why on Earth do you need to swap them for something else?

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love

Posted 12th May 2012 at 01:35

Profile

swiftyboi006

Seasoned Pro

Location: Maidenhead

Registered: 12 Apr 2010

Posts: 2,110

Status: Offline

Post #17

Stan says that he has a 6 with 454bhp but it appears to be non existant Dunno

________________________________________

cherry p1.....SOLD (regreting this)
blaze p2.....why did i buy this SOLD
Black p3 Love

Posted 12th May 2012 at 10:33

Profile

stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

Status: Offline

Post #18

swiftyboi006 wrote:

Stan says that he has a 6 with 454bhp but it appears to be non existant Dunno

It does exist I promise... Yes

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love

Posted 12th May 2012 at 11:10

Profile

pete_rallye

Seasoned Pro

Location: Yorkshire

Registered: 12 Dec 2002

Posts: 5,253

Status: Offline

Post #19

Would you not benefit by fitting cams by bringing in the same amount of power lower down the rev range? As an eg. Rich's car is running~ 440bhp@ ~8300rpm rpm with standard cams. Whilst I owned the car, although it was ace, I thought it was too many revs for road use. I was thinking you could fit a different pulley to bring max boost in earlier, and a different set of cams to keep your 440bhp but bring it in at somewhere nearer 7500rpm. I don't think it needed any more power (well, maybe a bit more Razz

), but the same power at less frantic revs would improve longevity and reduce the risk of your gearbox exploding.

________________________________________

Oulton Park in a BTCC 306 vid 1
Oulton Park in a BTCC 306 vid 2
Lap of the 'ring

Posted 12th May 2012 at 12:24

Profile

swiftyboi006

Seasoned Pro

Location: Maidenhead

Registered: 12 Apr 2010

Posts: 2,110

Status: Offline

Post #20

But like rich stated i dont think you can do this with a supercharger as it runs off the crank?

________________________________________

cherry p1.....SOLD (regreting this)
blaze p2.....why did i buy this SOLD
Black p3 Love

Posted 12th May 2012 at 13:00

Profile

dcc

Senior User

Location: Wales

Registered: 24 Feb 2009

Posts: 502

Status: Offline

Post #21

SwiftyBOIIIIIIIII I think you missed the whole point of pete_rallye's post...

He suggests a smaller (I assume?) pulley on the charger. Its much like the gearing on a bicycle.

for arguments sake lets say currently the engine might only have to spin 1 turn but charger spins 2 times. however, if the gearing is changed, the engine now spins 1 turn and the charger spins 3 turns. you now have (for arguments sake) 50% more air being fed through the engine. This in turn gives the engine the ability to get more air in the chamber at lower revs.

My old g40 was running silly power from a very small engine (1.3) due to the charger putting out somewhere near 30 psi from memory (I think it was 2 bar).

________________________________________

205 GTI
Xsara HDI

Posted 13th May 2012 at 14:23

Profile

stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

Status: Offline

Post #22

pete_rallye wrote:

), but the same power at less frantic revs would improve longevity and reduce the risk of your gearbox exploding.

You could do this, but you would have to lower the rev limit to avoid damaging the charger... Yes

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love

Posted 13th May 2012 at 15:22

Profile

pete_rallye

Seasoned Pro

Location: Yorkshire

Registered: 12 Dec 2002

Posts: 5,253

Status: Offline

Post #23

Yeah, that's what I mean. With the Rotrex charger you have to size the pulley to match your desired max rpm, so that the chargers maximum rpm limit matches your engines max rpm limit. With Rich's car this was well over 8k rpm, but personally I would prefer max power to come in around 7-7500rpm for road use. With the drop in revs will come a drop in power, despite the same amount of boost, so to help get the power back again, you could use a mild cam, giving slightly higher lift, but more importantly a bit more duration, giving the cylinders a little more time to fill. If you spec your cams carefully you should not lose any low down torque, and with the boost coming in a bit earlier, it should pull nicely from a bit lower down the revs also.

________________________________________

Oulton Park in a BTCC 306 vid 1
Oulton Park in a BTCC 306 vid 2
Lap of the 'ring

Posted 13th May 2012 at 20:01

Profile

welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,838

Status: Offline

Post #24

more torque possibly?

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 13th May 2012 at 20:37

Profile

stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

Status: Offline

Post #25

welshpug! wrote:

more torque possibly?

It's got me wondering that too. Yes

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love

Posted 13th May 2012 at 22:44

Profile

All times are GMT. The time is now 05:39

Please Note: The views and opinions found herein are those of individuals, and not of The Peugeot 306 GTi-6 & Rallye Owners Club or any individuals involved.
No responsibility is taken or assumed for any comments or statements made on, or in relation to, this website. Please see our updated privacy policy.